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Aug. 27, 2021

The Ripper Crew | Chicago's Satanic Cult


The Ripper Crew, a group that terrorized Chicago with a series of abductions and horrific killings between 1981 and 1982. Later, it would be revealed that they would eat the amputated breasts of their victims as part of their sickening Satanic ritual. 

They may have committed these horrific murders but one of the cult’s members has since been released from prison. Even their leader will be eligible for parole in a few years’ time, despite the authorities describing him as worse than the infamous Charles Manson.

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Sources for this episode include All That’s Interesting, a Medium article by Lisa Marie Fuqua titled “The Ripper Crew Satanic Cannibal Cult Murders,” Listverse, Murderpedia, Windy City Ghosts, The Chicago Tribune, and CBS Chicago.



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Transcript

Josh: This one. All right, let's see how this goes.

Sean: Yep.

Josh: Hi Fred. My name is Josh shell host of a let's start, a cold podcast. The only podcast that has decided to host their podcast on only fans. So if you want hours of content of my feet, just search, let's start a call, uh, on only fans. All right, now that all the weirdos are gone, let's uh, let's introduce my guests, his episode.

He is one third.

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: What's that?

Sean: As are the weirdos are gone now. Wouldn't they have stayed.

Josh: Uh, no, they would have gone to search my feet.

Sean: Oh,

Josh: Um, although they might want to stay for this episode. It's definitely weird. Um, so, uh, the voice you just heard is one-third of shots and thoughts podcast. One third of my other podcasts, read it on Wiki. And if he acquires a third podcast, not even the vendors will be able to stop this. Please welcome my good friend, Sean.

Salvino what is going on, buddy?

Sean: Uh, too much gas. I'm excited to be, uh, one with Fred finally once. And for all,

Josh: Yeah, it's been a while. I've mean to have you on for a while. It just, uh, haven't haven't matched up. So I'm glad to have you on for this episode.

Sean: for sure. Thankful, uh, to be on here.

Josh: Yeah. Um, so Sean, before we get started, I have to ask you, um, how do you feel about murder and more specifically mutilation? What are your feelings on that?

Sean: all around bad, not good stuff, but

Josh: Okay.

Sean: I guess, you know, uh, um, uh, overly sensitive to it, but in the grand scheme of things, you know, not good stuff.

Josh: Yeah, not a, not a fan, but you, you won't shy away if it's, if it's presented to you.

Sean: Yeah, exactly. My wife watches way too many murder shows murder. I'd cast for me to be a week to it. I guess

Josh: Interesting. Maybe, maybe you should just be always looking over your shoulders then. Cause she knows everything like how to hide a body, basically

Sean: it's pretty clarifying. She says a lot of like, you know, if, if one of us dies and then goes on and I'm like, wait a

Josh: as she's, as she's sharpening the knife.

Sean: Okay.

Josh: Well, I hope she waits at least an hour for us to finish this episode before she does that. Um, because, because in today's episode of the let's start a Colt podcast, we will be covering the story of the ripper crew, a group who terrorized Chicago with a series of abductions and horror, horrific killings between 1981 and 1982.

Later it would be revealed that they would eat the amputees amputated breasts of their victim as part of their sickening, satanic rituals. Uh, they have committed, they may have committed these horrific murders murders, but one of the cult members has since been released from prison. Even their leader will be eligible for parole in a few years' time, despite the authorities describing him as worse than the infamous Charles Manson.

So, Sean, have you ever heard of the ripper crew also known as the Chicago rippers?

Sean: No. Holy shit. That sounds like a comic book, like a Batman gang villain.

Josh: Oh yeah. That's, that's a very good description. Um,

Sean: awful.

Josh: yeah. Yeah, you definitely buckle up because, uh, this one starts dark and gets even darker as we go. Um, So definitely a trigger warning for anyone who needs that, uh, this episode does get extremely graphic. Unfortunately, Sean, you are stuck here, so, uh, you can't go anywhere.

Um, are you ready to jump into the ripper crew?

Sean: I guess I have to be now after that warning,

Josh: I never, I didn't tell you what it was going to be about. Uh, but this is payback for all this money you made me read on Reddit on Wiki. Um, yeah. Yeah. All right. So the river crew is widely regarded as one of the most prolific serial killers in American history. But despite this neuro notoriety not much is actually known about the early years of the group and or members, Robin getcha, Edward spritzer, Andrew co Coco Ellis and Thomas Coca Cola.

Um, those are the four members. Um, what has been disclosed to the public though, is that Robin getcha, the group's leader has been a, had been arrested sometime in 1979 and charged with con uh, con contributing to the sexual delinquency of a 14 year old girl. Uh, so starting off. Yeah. Yeah. He's uh, he's uh, oh, I mean, like I said, it starts dark gets worse, uh, if that's possible.

Um, but this wasn't his first brush with a, with a sexual related offense. As a teenager, getcha had also been accused by his family members of molesting his own sister. yeah,

Sean: God,

Josh: yeah. That's uh, that's some Alabama shit. I don't know what he's doing in Chicago, but,

Sean: well, I'm from Texas. I didn't want to say deep south shit because, uh, We don't do that. That's the Alabama big Alabama vibes. No disrespect.

Josh: Yeah. That's like a, yeah. Middle of the country kind of stuff.

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: Um, yeah. Uh, so in, in a bit, hear him have this quote unquote sickness. His parents sent him to live with his grandmother, but their efforts were in vain. He continued to exhibit other disturbing behaviors throughout the years with his wife, even admitting that he loved to slice her breasts whenever they had sex.

Sean: Oh, whoa.

Josh: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sean: he had a wife

Josh: Well, that, that is, uh, on alone. Fascinating. Uh, like what kind of person would be with someone like that is my first question. Um, but you know,

Sean: Like there's a, it's probably not good to be here.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, I guess there is like the BDSM crew. I don't know if that's part of that, but that's the extreme end of it. Maybe. Um,

Sean: Too much.

Josh: yeah, but this is, um, this is a kink that definitely comes back later on. Um, and I'm not sure what his obsession with breasts are, but they definitely play a huge part in the killings, but we will get to that.

Um, at some point during his life catch found employment at PDM con uh, contractors, I construction business established in 1971 by the notorious sealer serial killer and rapist, John Wayne Gacy known as the clown killer clown. He to terrorize the state of Illinois from 1972 to 1978 and was eventually, uh, found to have brutally murdered more than 30 people.

Uh, if you haven't checked out, uh, terrible people doing terrible things episode on John Wayne Gacy they'd cover all his terribleness. Um, but it is kind of crazy that, uh, this serial killer worked for another serial killer, um, and like kind of lucky for him. Cause he was younger at this point, which John Wayne Gacy preyed on younger boys.

Um, so kind of, I mean, if we're thinking like Dexter it's too bad, this serial killer didn't take out this serial killer. You know what I mean?

Sean: Yeah.

And I was like, oh man, out of all like 30 innocent children, he killed, he kind of at least got the future serial killer. I don't know.

Josh: Yeah. Maybe he was grooming him to become a better serial killer. Who knows? Cause uh, he definitely becomes that. Yeah. Um, It isn't known exactly how getcha met. Edward spent spritzer and the Coker, Alice brothers, Andrew and Thomas. However, sometime in the early 1980s, the four began to spend time spending time together with getcha becoming the defacto leader of their group.

Thanks to his innate charm charisma and authoritative authoritative personality. So he's basically the John of our group, Sean.

Sean: DOE not draw parallels between us and the,

Josh: Uh, yeah. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Um, the four of them would all hang out together at Getches house, waiting until his wife left for work before heading up to the addict, which they referred to as the satanic chapel, dark and lit only by candles. Yeah. Yeah. It's a par for the course so far.

Sean: Okay.

Josh: Dark and lit only by candle light.

The room featured an altar draped in red cloth, as well as six red and black crosses that had been hap haphazardly painted on the wall. Um, spreads her and the Copa Alice brothers, uh, Coco, Coco Rallis brothers believed that Gach possessed, not supernatural powers, which he used to control others, both physically and mentally.

They were convinced that this sphere of influence included them. However, they welcomed this idea, thinking that this gave meaning to their lives and a sense of purpose. Unfortunately, they believed that this purpose involved them committing a series of horrific murders. Uh, sorry. Yeah, no, that's right.

They believe that this purpose involved them committing a series of horrific murders. Um, yeah, so it's kind of weird. They're kind of weird. They're like, well, we think he's controlling us, but we're cool with it.

Sean: Cool. Doing anything else? What, where do you find these?

Josh: that is a great question. Idiots. Yeah.

Sean: know to be rude. Cause you know, I mean mental health and whatnot, but Jesus Christ. So many of these. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. They're probably assholes for sure.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sean: Apples

Josh: Um, yeah. I don't know where you find people like this, but, uh, they were definitely the three that he needed to. I mean, once you find the one brother, maybe it's just easier. The other brother just follows along, but, um, so really you really only finding two and then the other follows, um, on June 1st, 1981, detectives arrived at rip van Winkle motel in Villa park, Illinois, after receiving a call about a foul odor coming from behind them.

They ventured into the area expecting to find a dead deer, but encountering a D decomposing body. Instead, it was clear that it had been there for some time with maggots and wildlife, reducing it to mostly bone and a few pieces of flesh still clinging to it onto them. Uh, despite the he's destroyed state, the authorities were able to conclude that the, it had been a murder victim due to the pair of handcuffs wrapped around its risks, as well as a gang, uh, gag crap and crammed in its mouth.

What horrified the most though, was the fact that the corpse was missing, missing its left breast, which implied sexual motivation, a motive, um, a sexually motivated killing. So there's the breast thing again. And as I said, it's going to come up many times. Um, yeah. Uh, this was perfectly in line with the place where it had been discovered since the rip van Winkle motel was known for being a stopover where people could enjoy quick bouts of drugs and sex.

And I wonder if they work that into their ad campaign, you know, like, uh, do you love drugs? Do you want to cheat on your wife? Well, then come down to the Rick van Winkle motel, uh,

Sean: We got the perfect O'Kane and hookers.

Josh: need to dispose of a body. Well, down at the rip van Winkle motel, we don't report bodies until they are nearly decomposed.

Uh,

Sean: did that all lead? Just a little bit of flashlight. How long was that body there before

Josh: be awhile, right? Yeah.

Sean: uh, I don't know the science, but I would imagine quiet.

Josh: Yeah. I should have looked that up, but I would, I would hazard a guess, be at least a co like a few weeks, if not months. Um, which is you think it would start smelling before then? I don't know.

Sean: Like, uh, Yeah, like to a couple of days, I would imagine a dead body is,

Josh: Yeah, I guess the clientele, I guess the clientele for that motel were not high class. They were like used to the smell maybe.

Sean: Not too worried about bad smells there. I guess.

Josh: Yeah. They're cheating on their wives and doing cocaine and hookers. So what do they care?

Sean: Fair

Josh: Um, uh, using digital and dental records, the authorities were able to identify the body as that of 28 year old prostitute name, Linda Sutton, who had been, who had been abducted 10 days earlier from, from a Chicago suburb located nearby when Pete C Siekman, the local coroner performed an autopsy on her.

He found that she had been gang raped, sodomized stabbed multiple times and had her left breasts kind of, uh, cut off shortly before her death. Uh, yeah, I. I'm glad I gave a trigger warning at the beginning of this, because it definitely is not a, it's not a light episode.

Sean: you are a strong guy to be doing multiple episodes of this stuff, man, this is dark.

Josh: Yeah. Uh, to be fair, most Colts, aren't this dark, um, uh, the murder calls get pretty dark. That's where

Sean: This is all.

Josh: Yeah. The bad ones are bad. And the good ones. Yeah. W uh, there are 17 more of these ones. We're not going to get to them all, but, uh, we'll get to some of

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: Um, due to her brutalized state, the police were more, um, we're more than motivated to find her killers less.

They strike again, however, their efforts amounted to nothing. And after a few weeks passed with nothing to show for it, they were forced to let the set in case go cold. The next several months passed without any new victims turning up, which led authorities to hope that the killers behind her brutal death had stopped.

Which is great police work. Just cross your fingers and hope they stopped. Uh, please don't do it again. Um, sometime in early 1982, a woman named Cynthia Smith was abducted and slashed, but ultimately managed to free herself when she filed a report, the police considered her as, uh, uh, the lucky second victim of those behind the Sutton murders a year earlier, but with neither, evidence nor solid leads their investigation, once again, led nowhere.

unfortunately for the police Smith would be the only woman that year who was lucky enough to escape from her abductors that was weirdly worded, but she was, she was lucky enough to escape, but for the police, it was unfortunate because she was the only one to escape. The next few people do not escape.

Yeah, it was. I wasn't being like, unfortunately for the police, no one else escaped.

Sean: Hopefully everybody does Fred.

I think Fred's I think Fred's

Josh: I'm glad I I'm not rooting for the killers in this one.

Sean: Definitely not.

Josh: no, no. Um, on February 12th, 1982, a car belonging to a cocktail waitress was found abandoned on the side of the road with his gas gauge empty and our keys still in the ignition.

Soon afterwards, her naked body was discovered along the same road to the coroner later ruled that like Sutton, she too had been mutilated, tortured and raped before being killed a few days after this horrific discovery, another body was found in the area this time. It was a Hispanic woman whose breast showed signs of being savagely bitten.

Um,

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. And, uh, uh, yeah, someone also masturbated over her corpse, um, which, uh, authorities to theorize that the string of abductions and murders so far had been sexually motivated, which is, yeah, I think after the first one where it was like, yeah, she was raped. I think that would be the guests,

Sean: finally, finally we know there's whole time, man

breasts.

Josh: Oh, they masturbated. Yeah. That's definitely sexual now before. I don't know. I thought it was just some, I don't know. I don't know where to take this. Yeah, yeah. It

Sean: like

Josh: a kid.

Sean: they didn't have any, any information It's

like, oh yeah, for sure. it's uh, now we

Josh: yeah, it's a bank robbery gone wrong. Uh, Uh, yep. However, their investigation only ramped up when the fourth picture then was discovered, 21 year old Lorraine bore Witsky who went by the nickname. Laurie had last been seen on the morning of May 15th, 1982, walking from her apartment at Elmhurst gardens to the Remax office where she worked on St.

Charles road. When our boss Donald's did arrive there a few moments later, he noticed that a pair of women's shoes, cosmetics, and key chain had been dumped unceremoniously on the sidewalk in front of the office upon realizing that the items belong to one of his employees.

He immediately called the police and asked for help in search for or whisky a BOLO warning flag was sent out, but to no avail, the young woman had seemingly vanished without a trace.

Four months later on October 10th, 1982 hunters walking through Claritin Hills cemetery, spotted a corpse, lying in the thicket with a few articles of clothing scattered nearby. The victim was identified as Lori or whiskey. An autopsy later revealed that bore whiskey had been repeatedly tortured and raped before being killed with an ax, uh, or bodyboard signs of Savage beatings.

And the coroner also determined that some point during her captivity, a wire had been wrapped tightly around her breast. In fact, it had been put on so tightly that it ended up cutting off the entire breast and objects were later inserted into the gaping wound.

Sean: These guys are getting out of jail. One of them

Josh: yeah.

Sean: right now.

Josh: And once I would already. Yeah. And one's getting out soon, the leader of this bullshit, um, which is just insane. We'll get to the trials later, but, uh, yeah, they do some horrific, horrific, terrible, terrible things. Like, there's very few things that are darker than this,

Sean: Yeah. I mean, I'm all for. Re, you know, using JL as a, uh, rehabilitation to, you know, a recurring action type deal, you know, people can change, but like, what did you say, 1719 of these

Josh: uh,

Sean: like, how, how 18, I mean, how has that not life? I mean, I'm sure we're going to do it by the end of this, but like good in his gracious.

Josh: Yeah. You think this is what, uh, those, those charges are made for like people like this. Um, Now you could maybe make the argument. And like I said, we'll get to the trial part, but you could maybe make the argument for the, uh, followers to be a little more lenient, but still definitely their lifetime being in jail.

Um, but yeah, the, the, the main guy should definitely be locked away for many, many lifetimes, I think.

Sean: Exactly.

Josh: yeah, so that was a short break, but now we're getting back to, uh, the terrible things. because bore risky had been found four months after her abduction, the authorities theorized that after she was killed to her captors, for some unknown reason, uh, decided to keep her corpse with them before dumping in at the cemetery, this was corroborated by her family's claims that , they had thoroughly searched the area before the hunters made the gruesome discovery on September 30.

1982, a few days before bore whiskies body was found. Another body of the murdered young woman was earth in a field in a nearby town of south Barrington. She was identified as 30 year old shoe shoe Mack, an immigrant from Hong Kong. who had disappeared on the night of May 29th, 1982, after being dropped off by her brother. He had last seen her at the Barrington and Irving park roads in Hanover park. The same area where her body would be found a few months later. the autopsy determined that she had died from a fracture to her skull. However, her body was in such a destroyed state that our sister Lang was only able to identify her by her clothes.

She was wearing like that. That's crazy. Like, and, and the first one, they could only identify her by her teeth. Um, now that was more due to the composition, but still it's, uh, just the abuse that they do to these bodies.

Sean: Let's just.

Josh: yeah. Yeah. Um, throughout 1982, the death toll steadily rose sending waves of terror and anxiety throughout this entire state of Illinois, the public spheres are exacerbated by the lack of developments in the murder investigations.

Since the bodies were always discovered in severely mutilated states, fingerprints, and other kinds of genetic samples often couldn't be obtained from them. But, 13th, 1982, a few weeks after shoe Mac disappeared, a prostitute name, Angela York was propositioned by a man who called himself, John.

It's John. I should have had John on. Damn it. Um, no, he wouldn't have been alive back then. He's old. He's not that old. Um, Um, upon getting and to his van, she was attacked by his two friends who had hidden in the back seat. They handcuffed her to the vehicles inside handed her a knife and forced her to make cuts up on her own breasts.

The men weren't satisfied with the wounds that she made though. And one of them took back the knife and gave her a much deeper slashes. Oh Jesus.

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Um, oh God. I almost want to skip this next part is a big trigger warning. Um, Um, after masturbating into the gash, is he duct tape it shut and forced angel out of the van dumping her on the street.

She, so, I mean, that is a terrible thing to happen, but it is, I'm glad that she managed to escape. You know what I mean?

Sean: so she.

Josh: Yeah. They dumped her out of the, on, on the, on the streets and she actually, um, fled to the nearby police station, uh, where she told them about the experience. Um, the authorities theorized that our abductors were the ones leaving a trail of brutally murdered young women across the city. However, angel couldn't remember any specific details about the men and the van because of this, the trail once again, when cold,

Sean: Golly man.

Josh: yeah, it is too bad.

Like, I mean, you can't blame her, obviously she's traumatized, but it is too bad. She couldn't

Sean: Right?

Josh: identify anything because it could have potentially stopped a few, a few more things and captured the moment a little bit earlier, but uh,

Sean: So I'm guessing DNA testing, I think until,

I guess the nineties or something.

Josh: yeah, maybe late eighties, I'm not a hundred percent sure on that, but yeah, definitely not around this time, which is also unfortunate. Um, but this is kind of why you see like serial killers in this time period, because it was so hard to catch them back in the day.

Sean: Yeah. The trail can dry so quickly.

Josh: yeah, well, exactly. And like, and if you think about it, like, this is only between 81 in 82. So within this two year span, like all this is happening, um, which is just insane. Like it's just so quick.

Sean: Ugh.

Josh: on August 28th, 1982, several weeks before the bodies of shoe Mac and Lori burettes Bora whiskey were discovered the police came and, across the remains of a woman named Sandra Delaware, whose body had been dumped under the Fullerton avenue bridge.

On the north branch of the Chicago river, Delaware was found with her wrists bound together behind her back. Although this time the perpetrators had used shoestrings, they had also stabbed her multiple times before strangling her to death with her own bra. Like the others, uh, her left breast was amputated as well.

So I wonder if it's like, I don't know. I don't know much about satanic rituals because they are like a satanic cult they claim to be,

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: I don't know, the left breast has something to do with that. Um, but it seems to be, that's the one they focus the most on.

Sean: Yeah, I have, yeah. I have no idea. Uh,

Josh: Oh, you're not a, you're not a satanic, uh, uh, Lieutenant

Sean: not a huge, isn't really a huge state. I myself,

uh,

Josh: I thought, uh, I thought WWE and Satanism went together. Right.

Sean: Uh, probably definitely Vince McMahon and Satanism go together. I wouldn't know that.

Josh: yeah, so I don't know, but it, the left breast seems to be the focus, even though they do on some occasions, both. Um, but yeah, fucked up either way. We'll continue on, the other victims though, the coroner determined that Delaware had been killed only six hours before her body was found. This was in stark contrast to shoe and bore with ski whose corpses had been kept by their abductors for months after their deaths.

The following months after the discovery of Delaware's body, another dead and mutilated woman was unearthed by authorities, a marketing executive from Broadway, Illinois, 30 year old rose back Davis was found on September 8th, 1982 underneath the stairwell of a three story apartment building. When the police came across her remains, they found the corpse naked in lying on its back.

Located close by where a sweater and a pair of blue quarter. I slacks that those close to Davis identified as belonging to hers. The autopsy determined that Davis had been repeatedly stabbed and raped before being strangled with a black sock. Her face had been beaten up beyond recognition while their stomach showed numerous small punctures.

Like the other victims, her breasts had also been cut and mutilated.

Sean: So was he married this whole time? He was killing people and like slicing up her breasts. Well, you know, they were intimate like,

Josh: yeah.

Sean: wife? didn't run to the police and be like, oh, it's kind of weird. But my husband does something sort of similar.

Josh: yeah. I, I believe she stays with them. Um, I don't, I don't exactly know why, like how you would not be able to, unless she was in on it. Maybe who knows? Um, I mean, Been brainwashed enough to be with him. So who knows what she allowed them to get away with? I don't know. Um, so we're getting, we're getting into the, uh, uh, not the final victim, but, uh, uh, an interesting victim anyway.

Not that we'll, they're all interesting in their own different ways. Um, the next victim was found a few weeks afterwards this time it was eight, 18 year old prostitute, Beverly Washington, who had been dumped by the railroad track that lay near Chicago humbled park. Unlike the other victims, though, the passer-by who discovered her noted that she was still breathing.

I'll be at barely Washington survived. her Odile, but the injuries that she had been left with were horrific, including a amputated left brain. Uh, severely slash right breast and multiple stab wounds. Despite the, that she had been subjected to Washington was able to remember several important details about better abductors and their car.

According to an article titled the ripper cruise, satanic cannibal Colt murders quote,

Sean: Okay.

Josh: a red Dodge van with tinted windows had pulled up to Beverly and asked how much for a date when the driver offered her more than she was asking for. She became nervous, but got in the van anyways. She told the car all the details she could remember, including the feathers hanging from the rear view mirror The driver was a slender white man, about 25 years old tack he wore a flannel shirt and square toed boots. she said he had greasy brown hair, stash and quote.

Sean: She's a big remembering. All right.

Josh: Oh a hundred percent. And I'm like just surviving that whole ordeal. Yeah. Very, very strong of her to, um, to, to be able to

even like

Sean: All of it.

Josh: yeah.

And stay conscious the whole time and, and, uh, like put it all in your memory. Um, kudos to her for sure. Um, I really said that she was made to get in the back of the van, which could only be accessed through a hinged plywood door, very sketchy already. Um, there, he handcuffed her and forced her to perform oral sex on him.

afterwards she said, quote, then he raped me and shoved some pills into my mouth and maybe wash them down with soda pop. I blacked out. And the next thing I remember was I was in the hospital and, Washington had only survived because their abductors had thought she was dead. Thanks to her account.

The authorities were finally able to obtain a description of the killers and their vehicle, none of the investigator knew it yet, but the man that Washington had described was Robin getcha. Um, um, while Washington was cooperating with police officers, get you in the rest of the ripper crew.

We're busy carrying out another murder. This time was different though, because their victim was a local drug dealer named Raphael Toronto, whom they shot well. He was inside a phone booth by this time, the ripper crew had started to take, more for hire contracts and Toronto was their first hit.

However, they wouldn't last very long in this line of work because the police were closing in on them all in all between 1981 and 1982, the ripper crew abducted a total of 18 women, six of whom were eventually found dead with mutilated bodies in amputated, left breast. This information had been kept from the public though, since the police believed that it would improved to be useful for future interrogations, they couldn't have been more.

Right. So a very interesting turn at the end there they're like, yeah, we're going to be Hitman now after abducting innocent women, we're going to, we're

Sean: seems to

be a tray, the, these Colts or these serial killers, just get a little bit too cocky and then they, they have major fuck-ups towards them.

Josh: Yeah, well, yeah, I think that's a lot of murders, right? They, they either get, I don't know if it's nervous or they get yeah. To, confident and, uh, they think they think they can handle more than they actually can, which is, uh, definitely what happens here.

Sean: Yeah, for sure.

Josh: uh, armed with what Washington's information the authorities headed by detective Warren will, uh, will cause, well, cause sure.

We'll go with that.

Sean: We'll go with it.

Josh: yeah. Close enough. WW. He's like a, he's like Peter Parker.

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: yeah, they began talking to prostitutes, hanging out in the Chicago's Cicero avenue. And you hoping that one of them knew something paid off and they were able to locate the red van, which had been parked in nearby north central avenue Sitting behind them. Was it red haired man that didn't fit Washington's description of her abductor at all. The interior of the vehicle though matched her account right down to the carpeted floors and the electrical wiring running along its wall. Upon questioning the driver. The police officer learned that his name was Edward spritzers and the van belonged to his boss, Robin Gach, who owned a business called RNR electrical company.

spritzer also told them that he was headed to an apartment where he had been hired to remodel. He allowed the police officers to follow him to the site. And once they're called gets to come over so that he too could be interviewed when Gach walked out of the apartment unit, the authorities were so shocked to see that he completely fit Washington description of, her almost killer.

He was even wearing the same shirt and boots that she had claimed to have seen him in. So she nailed it like with the, with the description.

Sean: Perfect.

Josh: However, the police officers were still surprised that he seemed calm and composed while talking to them, which led them to consider that if it had been a mix. of course they didn't know that they had just come face to face with a psychopath, which is very, you hear that a lot when, um, uh, like psychopaths, when, when confronted with information like this, they're always like, they think they can always get out of it.

Cause they think they know better than everyone. Um,

Sean: Just Just super

Josh: people. Yeah. Whereas normal people like, like I'd be freaking out, I'd be like, oh shit, like just sweating.

Sean: even if I'm innocent. I'm like, oh man. I mean, I've, I've not committed crimes. And I would not be comfortable talking to the cops,

like outside of my house.

Josh: A hundred percent. You, you see a cop drive by you and you're like hands 10 and two, uh, uh, 40. And we're going, uh, uh, one under the speed limit. Like it's uh, uh, yeah. It's uh, so that's, uh, psychopath would not do any of that. Getz was ordered to go to the fifth district police station for further questioning to which he agreed during his interview.

Several police officers searched his van and found a sedative tablet, which matched the description of the tablet that Washington said. She had been forced to swallow, get seen relaxed and easygoing during his initial interview. But when he was asked to come back a few weeks later for a follow-up, his demeanor had changed this time.

He was accompanied by a lawyer and appeared more guarded, go to his answers. Unfortunately for him, Edward Spencer, hadn't been as composed during his interview, after being interrogated for hours, he broke down and confessed to the murders, writing a 78 page statement that he was the designated driver, which

Sean: Oh, right. Designated yeah, Right.

Josh: he's like, I didn't do anything.

I just drove. What do you want to know about me driving? Um, yeah, he, he also said that getcha would have sex with the prostitutes they abducted before slicing off their breasts and bringing it back with him into the vehicle. He also talked about an incident wherein getcha had, uh, viciously beat a woman to death with a hammer resulting in a sight.

So gruesome that spritzer admitted to violently throwing up after. Uh, Uh, so, um, according to spritz, or he was terrified of getcha his blood less than the supernatural powers, which is why he agreed to have sex with a gaping chest wound of their victims, even if doing so disgusted him, which I don't know if that's a, I

don't know if that's a good, yeah, well, I don't know if that's a good to cover, you know what I mean?

Like I only did it because I was scared of him. Like, that's a, that's another level.

Sean: Yeah, you still did it, dude.

Josh: Yeah. Like Nazis were still Nazis. You know what I mean?

Sean: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: but they, they took it to extremes.

Sean: I knew what they were doing.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and Edward spritzer confessed to being involved in seven different murders. The authorities use the, his statement to confront getcha. However, he denied all the allegations against him to scare him into confessing. He was made to watch part of the spritzers interrogation, but didn't seem phased by it at all.

spreads her. On the other hand, had a more visceral reaction to seeing Gach quote, he turned white as a ghost and suddenly changed his story. He said that getcha had never killed anyone. Spreads her, started talking real fast and trying to take back his confession when pressed by police Spitzers said that his girlfriend's brother, Andrew Coca Lala, killed all those women.

And so he basically, when he saw get you come completely did a 180 and was like, ah, no, I'm just kidding. Uh, Uh, he didn't, he didn't kill anyone. Like what a,

Sean: Yeah, those are the second pages prior that I admitted to everything I just made up 78 pages of, of a story. None of that is true. It's

all

Josh: like you like my, uh, uh, my horror horror book that I'm writing, it's a. I know it has everyone's name in it, but I just use them for inspiration. That's it?

Sean: Rob, Rob.

Josh: it was this other guy, Andrew hit it all. yeah. What a coward like just a 180, but uh, uh, given this retraction and gets his refusal to admit anything, the police were forced to let them go. They decided to look into his background in the hopes of discovering something that would tie him to the murders.

After weeks of interviewing his personal acquaintances and tracing his movements for the past few months, they managed to find several damning links. The authorities discovered that in 1981, getcha checked into the rip van Winkle motel for several months. The three rooms next to his were also rented by Edward spread, sir, and the Coker, Alice brothers, Andrew and Thomas, that was the year that the first murder victim Lynda Sutton was found and her body had been dumped in the lot behind the van Winkle.

Which I mean, as a murderer, like at least try and dump it further away. You know what I mean? Like I didn't even

Sean: Yeah,

Josh: they walked a hundred, meters.

Sean: that's good. Yeah, that's a good enough spot. They'll never catch me return to the scene of the crime.

Josh: yeah. You can't return to this, you know, crime, if you'd never left it it's genius. Um, Andrew, Andrew cooker Ellis was immediately brought in for questioning, especially since spritzer had alleged that he was the one who committed the murders. It didn't take long for him to break. And the police noted that his confession included details about the victims that hadn't been disclosed to the public.

The information he gave was also eerily similar to the coroner's reports, which cemented their belief that he had been involved in the abductions and killings Cocker. Rollis told the authorities that he made use of piano wire to cut off the women's breath. That wasn't the most disturbing part of his confession though.

According to him, all four members of the ripper crew would take turns, masturbating into the amputated breasts before eating parts of them during their St. Tannic rituals in Getches

Sean: Oh

God.

Josh: Yeah. So these guys were fucked.

Sean: You'd You'd

fuck guys, man.

Josh: yeah. You ever heard that a game? What is it? The cracker game? Frat boys play?

Sean: No.

Josh: Okay. We won't even go there, then look it up if you're interested. Uh, it reminds me of that. Uh, but they all eat it instead of just one person that gives you a hint as to what the cracker game is. Um, In total, Andrew cooker Ellis had been, yeah.

To be involved in 18 murders, including that arose Davis's and Lori Barr whiskeys. He also described the killings of Sandra Delaware in sickening detail. Uh, I will not go into the details because I am tired of going into these details.

Sean: I don't I don't blame you bit.

Josh: yeah, uh, Andrew's brother Thomas was also brought in for questioning upon learning that he failed the polygraph test.

He broke down and admitted to everything, even confessing that they had brought most of the victims to their satanic chapel in catches home in order to rape torture and murder them. He claimed that they used a variety of knives and ice packs to mutilate their bodies and referred to their practice of eating parts of the amputated breasts as taking communion.

So

Sean: No,

Josh: kind of, kind of like a cracker, right?

Sean: no, no, definitely.

Josh: Uh, uh, uh,

Sean: yeah.

Josh: Yeah. I've never, I I've never been to a church like that, but, uh, uh, we'll, we'll move on. Um, Um, he also told the authorities that gets would keep the remains of each breast in a special box. Once when he looked inside, Thomas Coker, Ellis counted 15 of them in total Thomas Cocker Ellis admitted to being involved in three murders, including that of Lori needless to say the investigators were horrified and sickened by the confessions that they have heard by the three men Elmhurst police detective, John Miller even said, quote, I've done many homicide cases and I've never heard anything so horrendous in my life. Thomas Cockerell has talked about raping the women, stabbing the women, having sex with the knife wounds and cutting their breasts off to leave. He called Robin's mark end, quote,

Sean: No

Josh: that is dark and just disgusting, like imagine being police, detective for a major city.

And he's saying this is the worst thing he's ever seen, like that is saying something,

Sean: Yeah, for sure. They see

a lot of fun.

Josh: Yeah. Especially Chicago. Right?

Sean: Oh, and Gacy and Gacy

was Chicago, like you

said

earlier.

Josh: yeah. Not too much, not do a long before that. It had been around 10 years before that, so yeah. Uh, Uh, I don't know what's in the water there, but, uh, hope they cleaned it up since, since the eighties.

Sean: Hopefully.

Hopefully.

Josh: Armed with these confessions, the authorities executed a search warrant on the homes of all four members of the ripper crew inside Getches house.

They discovered the satanic chapel, as well as the rifle that killed Rafael, Toronto, their final murder victim throughout the investigation gets maintained his innocence and claim that he had neither harmed the women nor for spreads her and Coker Alice brothers to do so in attempt to avoid going to trial, he declared himself insane, but was deemed competent enough by numerous medical professionals who evaluated his mental state.

I don't know. You've probably insane, but still, I don't know if that gives you a free pass.

Sean: Yeah. If I was a mental expert, I'd be like, oh no, he's definitely saying, fuck this guy.

Josh: True. True. I guess you'd just do it out of spite to be like, no, you're, you're not getting out of this one. You fucking piece of shit.

Sean: Exactly.

Josh: get his first trial ended, in a mistrial, his second one, which began on September 20th, 1983 wasn't as successful either suppressor and the Coker, Alice brothers recanted their confession and get who took the witness stand in his defense insisted that he was innocent since nobody testified against sketch.

The jury was unable to find him guilty of the brutal killings carried out between 1981 and 82. Instead of he was only convicted of rape and battery and attempted murder of Beverly Washington for it. She was sentenced to 120 years in prison. Robyn Getches currently , incarcerated in the, um, main ARD correctional center in Chester, Illinois.

He will be eligible for parole in 2042, I guess, not soon, like soon, relatively 20 years. Um, meanwhile Thomas Cocker Ellis was convicted of rape and murder of Lori bar whiskey for which he was sentenced to life in prison. The prosecution had initially called for the death penalty, but the du page county judge decided to throw this out in 1986, the Illinois appeals court reversed Thomas Cocker, Ellis guilty verdict citing legal errors in his original trial.

He was granted a new trial and pled guilty to the murder of Laurie Borucki for which he received 70 years prison sentence in 2017. Thomas Coker, Alice came up for parole to force him to stay behind bars. The authorities tried to have him committed as a sexual violent person inside of the various murders that he participated in, including that of shoe max, whom he admitted to raping. However, the psychiatrist who evaluated Thomas determined that he wasn't sexually violent despite widespread criticism, he was released from prison in March, 2019 after serving only half the sentence.

Um, so no, there was, uh, there was a few, there was a multiple, it was multiple psychiatrists.

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: Thomas Cook register as a sex offender, as long as he's living in Illinois. Um, he is currently resides in the city of Orora located a few miles west of Chicago. Um, I like to say the city just so everyone knows in that city where he is. Uh, just to have a heads up, if anyone listening from there.

meanwhile, Andrew recanted, has earlier confession in which he admitted to beating the road back Davis to death with a hatchet bite. His claims though, the jury, after three hour deliberation found him guilty of raping and murdering the young woman and sentenced him with the death penalty.

The next few years saw Andrew cooker Ellis appealing several times, all of which were denied. He also claimed to have been suffering from a schizophrenia break at the time of Davis's murder and blamed his original defense attorney for failing to enter a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.

The Greek Orthodox church, which the Coker Alice brothers were part of even became involved in an effort to save Andrew from the death penalty. All of these efforts thankfully failed and he was administered with illegal injection on March 17th, 1999 at the age of 35. Um, and actually Andrew cooker Ellis was the last inmate to be executed by the state of Illinois.

His death came almost 12 years before governor pat Quinn enacted legislation on March 9th, 2011, that abolished capital punishment, which led him to commute, the sentence of 15 inmates on death row to life imprisonment without parole. So I don't know why Andrew got the short end of the stick because they all seem to do equally, if

Sean: Yeah, that's what

Josh: things. So I don't, I don't really understand, but

Sean: How do you, how do you these Thomas, but yeah, fucking kill Andrew.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. They were like, we can't have both brothers in prison. Um, so we're going to kill one and release the other, uh, yeah, it makes no sense to me. I don't understand the prison system, but, um, yeah, not that I'm for capital punishment, but if anyone deserved it, it was these,

Sean: Yeah. I don't really believe in punishment, but it's like, there should be a special place for just obviously evil people.

Josh: The worst of the worst, for sure.

Sean: The week of PD at Thomas's address is just fully on Wikipedia, which makes me want to go over there and beat his beat his ass.

Josh: Yeah. I wonder how many times, um, not that that we're calling for any of this cause, um, I

think that would cause me

Sean: of course now.

Josh: Do

not go beat these people. They are, uh, hopefully reformed, but, uh, that is crazy. That is, it's just, it's just wide open. Uh here's I guess they have to, right. Cause they're, he's, he's a sex offender. So he has to be on, like, you have to know where his, uh, his address is. Right.

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: So, um, and finally, Edward Spitzer on the other hand, pleaded guilty to killing to Mack, Sandra Delaware. Rosebeck Davis and Raphael Toronto on April 2nd, 1984.

He received a life sentence for , each of the four murders. Um, two years later on February 25th, 1984, spreads her once again, went on trial for the murder of Lynda Sutton. The first of the ripper crew victim. He was convicted of aggravated kidnapping and murder for which he received the death penalty as well.

Uh, in 2003, governor George, Ryan, before leaving office, granted Edward spread, sir clemency, which turned his death sentence into life imprisonment without parole. So he got off on, on that one as well,

Sean: But no, no parole. So he's, he's stuck in prison, right?

Josh: Oh yeah. Which is good. Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, but it is funny that he was like, yeah, the guy that's, uh, on trial for five of the murders, not Andrew.

He's like, I'll, I'll let him off, but not, not the other. Uh, Uh, but

yeah. Yeah. We don't like that guy. Maybe he was, I don't know. I don't know why they picked on that guy, but, uh, Yeah, whatever. Um, to this day, Robin Gach maintains his innocence claiming that he was never the leader of a satanic cult and that he never participated in the brutal murders of at least six women.

He continues to say that his, um, his obsession with breasts was merely an inherited family trait and no way indicates that he was involved in the killings, which is a

Sean: Yeah. Okay.

Josh: like, I love breasts, but that wasn't me. I didn't do it. I inherited it. But it doesn't mean I'm involved in killing. It's like, okay, that's, that's a weird way to defend yourself, but, okay.

Um,

Sean: Yeah.

Josh: once during an interview get said, quote, I don't only face the injustices, but the nightmares that follow you have no idea the pain and hurt I face and feel every single day I sit here and lose her. I am not an angel, but I never intentionally hurt anyone unless it was to protect myself or my family.

I could never live with the killing or knowing I was responsible for taking one's life and quote, despite these claims though, almost nobody believes that it gets never played a part in the abductions and murders that terrorize Chicago. And that is the end of the Chicago ripper crew

uplifting story. Right?

Sean: Yeah. I still have so many questions. Like, did they not find the boxes of women? Like the 15 breasts in his satanic? Like, did they not find all of that? Or it seems all charged one murder each and I'm like they murdered people or at least attempted to murder eight.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Well, they focused on the murder murders. Um, Uh, cause there, yeah, there was a few attempted ones. Um, yeah, I don't know if they found the breast box as I'm calling it. Um, they maybe destroyed it. I don't know. Or ate it. They ate a lot of the member of that. So, um, um, yeah. I know you tried to suppress it, but I'll bring it back for you.

Um,

Sean: they, they had a whole satanic alter in there. The women had, or his wife said that he liked to cut her breasts while they had sex. Like how does this man convince himself that he is even a little bit innocent of these crimes?

Josh: Well, this is the thing with like call it leaders, right? They convince themselves crazy things like they're Jesus Christ or innocent in this case, but it's just as wild as claiming to be Jesus Christ. Cause you're definitely not, you know what I mean?

Sean: Yeah. you're definitely a hundred percent guilty of all

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, you did this. Uh, no questions asked. Uh, so yeah. Um, I don't know if they found the actual parts in his house, but they found like all the evidence that suggested that they did this, um, in his house, which means he definitely was not innocent. So I don't know how he can convince himself of this.

Sean: Yeah. I don't know how these guys got out of this. All this, no, only one of them died. The other one has like, they should all be either dead or life in prison without

Josh: Yeah. It's the weirdest thing. The weirdest thing. I mean, it's all weird. Don't get me wrong. But the weirdest

thing to me is they're just like, uh, one of you dies. We need one death for all of these. Um, I just don't get how they went from. I know it's the whole trial thing and maybe something was stronger than the other or they get right out stuff in the other cases.

And not this one, but still, it seems weird that they were able to get the death penalty for one and not all four, or like he couldn't just be put in jail with no parole, like the rest of them. You know what I mean?

Sean: Yeah. And then Robin only gets attempted murder. Not first degree.

This man was the math behind everything.

He has a blast.

Josh: that's the one that is, uh, that is copyright. I'm gonna make sure it's called dress box. Um, no, I won't do that, but, uh, I guess, cause the other two, the other three or two claimed it was the, it wasn't him after the fact. So then they couldn't because they wouldn't testify against him.

Right. Um, So, I guess that's why he got off lighter than the one other one. The other one did because Edward, I think you got the worst of it and then the other ones, uh, yeah, he's in also in life without parole. So Robin's the only one with parole left, which

Sean: Yeah,

Josh: doesn't make any sense.

Sean: he'll be 89 by the time he's released. Uh, so, you know, fingers crossed. he dies.

Josh: no, no. You know what? I hope, I hope on his day that they released him, he gets out, he sees the son and dies.

Sean: Oh

Josh: So he has, he has a little bit of hope, you know what I mean? And then just gone. It doesn't have the, he doesn't get to the satisfaction of living outside of bars. Um, but, uh, that is the rip recruit.

Uh, Sean, um, but before we cap it off for today, uh, it is time for call critique, which is where we rate each cult. Uh, after we talked about it at a five stars, just like you would on a Yelp review or something like that. Um, Um, so,

Sean: Okay.

Josh: and, and don't get too worried about the five stars. It's kind of arbitrary.

You can give it whatever you want. Um, as long as you give some, some comments as to why you give it, those, those stars. Um,

Sean: so

are we, this is the shittiest of shit.

Josh: honestly, it's has gone either way. So it is completely up to you. There is no. There's, there's no rules to this, whatever you say, if you go five stars, I love them. Five stars. I hate some, we will accept whatever you tick, whatever you say. Um, so at a five star, Sean, what will you rate them and why?

Sean: Uh, I'll go five as good human beings. One has the apps.

Bottom feeders have this, uh, uh, they get a, they get a one and only are they pieces of shit, but, uh, I guess kind of bad at what they do. They attempted 18 murders, only what we're not successful on the majority of them. And, uh, left a lot of evidence, I guess back then, that's not really stuff that they had to worry about, but

you know, just as far as criminals go, they, they would've, they would've got caught.

Like after the first one,

Josh: Instantly.

Yeah, they would have been clapped.

Sean: awful people bad at what they do. And, uh, Yeah.

if I could give them negative stars, I would, they are awful. People, uh, are not, uh, advocating, finding Andrew or doing anything or Thomas Andrews dead

Josh: yeah.

Sean: rest in peace. Uh, we're not advocating finding Thomas, but, uh, it is the internet. And I'm not saying you should find it.

I'm not

just the information is out there.

Josh: just, just

think negative thoughts towards him.

Sean: is an address? So you can just send hate mail. I'm sure.

Josh: Yeah. Send, I don't

Sean: Just don't put it on your turn average

dress

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Put a put from his brother just to really fuck with them. Um, cause that's kinda what he deserves. Yeah.

Sean: to see that.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, that is a low, but I approve of it. Um, yeah, I gotta agree with these Sean. I think one star is a great rating. Uh, they're not even a great cult if we're being honest. Um, so, uh, uh, like most carts start off.

Good. But these guys did not. So I'm going to go with the one-star as well for all the reasons you said they are terrible human beings and they deserve life in prison. I think, uh, I think Andrew got off easy if we're, if we're really being real about it. Um,

Sean: I, I I'm with you. I'm I'm I think personally, you know, I don't put a lot of thought into death sentences and things like that, but I'm like, life improvement seems much, much worse than just a death injection. You know what I mean? I'd much rather these rot in prison forever.

Josh: Oh yeah. A hundred percent. And like, I mean, There is something to say about rehabilitation, but it's clear

that with the, with the quotes from, Robin it's, it's clear, he is not, uh, repented or done anything to come to the grips that he did these things. And I doubt he ever will. So those are the kinds of people that I'm okay with leaving behind bars for life.

Um, the other people it's unclear if they, you know, realize what they've done and try to make amends, uh, we, I hope they have, I hope they are good people now and contribute to society because that is the idea, I guess, of, prison and trying to rehabilitate people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's conversation to be had about whether America's justice system does that, but, um, we can

Sean: that lead does not, there's no discussion needed. It does not.

I'll work towards it is very much meant for the, uh, profits. They're all for profit. Uh, nothing's America like capitalism,

Josh: Yeah. Like profit prisons. What is it as a, yeah, basically as low as it gets. Um, but yeah, so hopefully, hopefully they are better people now, but I also am okay with them being behind bars for the rest of your life. Um, because yeah, uh, I don't think people like that should be roaming around. thank you everyone for listening, Sean. Um, why don't you tell people about shots, some thoughts, uh, and if you want, you can tell people about Reddit on Wiki. I'm sure they've heard it enough from me, but, uh, uh, shots and thoughts for sure. Let's hear it.

Sean: Yeah. What's up Fred, uh, shots and thoughts is, uh, a podcast comes out every Monday. What we do is. We learn something new every week. And then we take shots of liquor and then we play drinking games that equal more shots of liquor. And then we make the drunk as person give a recap of what we just learned.

Um, our tagline is the internet only improv comedy game show involving shots of liquor. And so, uh, uh, Yeah.

if you just want to come learn about random stuff and then also hear the debauchery that happens with three plus shots of liquor, uh, uh, tune in at Watson thoughts, uh, we're on all social media at SNT pod, and if that's not right, really your vibe, you can also find me on, on Reddit, on Wiki with Josh and, uh, his pretty much co-host at this point, John.

what we do there week is we, uh, learn about something new every week as well, but we use a right. And Wikipedia as our main sources of research. So are things factual? Uh, probably not, but is it a good time? 100%. Yes. So yeah, you can check me out on both of those podcasts. They come out every Monday and they're a whole lot of fun. Oh, social media. You can find us at Reddit on Wiki on all social media.

Josh: Oh, yeah, that was, that was good, man. You've been practicing.

Sean: I've been trying.

Josh: Um, yeah. And actually, as I was thinking about this, Sean, this episode perfectly ties into the episode, John and I were on, on shots and thoughts, uh, about breasts and why, uh, nipples are not okay for women, but are okay for men to expose. I worded that poorly, but you get the jest.

Sean: Yeah. Yeah. We talked about, we had Josh and John on a shots and thoughts. We talked about when did nipples become sexualized and, you know, whenever you first started mentioning this, I was like, wow, what a perfect, uh, tie in, uh, you know, why they were sexualized and then learning about who sexualized them?

Probably the worst in his,

Josh: Yeah. I did not clue into this, uh, until now, so you are a quicker than I am, so yeah, if you want to go check out shots and thoughts, uh, that's a good episode to hop into and then, uh, listen to their whole catalog. They've got fucking hundreds of episodes.

I don't know, hundreds, but a hundred, at least a hundred, probably. Right.

Sean: we are somewhere in the seventies, but it feels like a hundred for sure.

Josh: close. I mean, that's a lot of hours of content. If you're looking for content. Definitely check them out. They are great and funny and, uh, I'm glad for having them on today. And, um, I'm going to do my plugs. So if you're loving this podcast, be sure to give us a review and tell your friends about it.

If you want to support us, I go to our, buy me a coffee page and become a member. Uh, if you want to keep up to date with the podcast, you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at let's underscore cult. You can follow our facebookPage@facebook.com slash let's start a called pod, or you can go to let's start a call podcast and sign up for our newsletter.

So thank you, Fred for listening and thank you, Sean, for coming on today. and talking about this horrific horrific thing, uh, definitely one of the most graphic episodes I've done. So I appreciate you being on for it.

Sean: as, as revenge for the smut, I fully accept this punishment that you've given. And, uh, I appreciate you bringing me on nonetheless.

Josh: All right, man. We'll see you next time. And Fred, we will see you later.

Sean: Bye.