Practice safe sects
Nov. 16, 2021

The Lafferty Brothers' School of Prophets | A Family Cult


When Allen Lafferty walked into his home on the evening of July 24, 1984, he never expected to find the carpet and drapes soaked in blood. Nor did he imagine that he would be the first to find the corpses of his beloved wife and daughter.

Staring at their remains, Allen soon came to realize that those responsible for destroying his family were none other than his older brothers, whom he had looked up to all his life. 

 

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Sources for this episode include “Under the Banner of Heaven” by Jon Krakauer, The Deseret News, The Detroit Free Press, True Crime Daily, Kuer 90.1, Grunge, CBS News, KSL TV, The Salt Lake City Weekly, the State of Utah v. Ronald Watson Lafferty (2001), and a Medium article titled “Brenda and Erica Lafferty: Revelation and Death” by Madeline O’Brien.



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Dynamo - https://www.voxnest.com/dynamo/privacy-policies
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Transcript

Josh:

Fred.

 

Josh:

My name is Josh shell host of your,

 

Sienna:

Nice.

 

Josh:

I want to take it away from me.

 

Sienna:

My name's Fred and I'm the host of this podcast.

 

Sienna:

Let's start a cult.

 

Josh:

You nailed

 

Sienna:

Nice.

 

Sienna:

Thanks.

 

Josh:

But my name's Josh shell host of the list article podcast, the only podcast I was that can accurately tell when the rapture will have.

 

Josh:

And has been leaving clues in every episode to let you know when, so please go listen through my catalog dozens of times and figure out when the end of days is coming, you know, invite some friends, you guys can solve it faster if you, if you invite more people.

 

Josh:

So invite everyone listened to the podcast and give us a rating or.

 

Josh:

Now with that blasphemous

 

Josh:

prophesizing out of the way, it's time to welcome my guest for this episode.

 

Josh:

She's beginning to become a regular on this podcast so much that she might become a cult classic

 

Sienna:

Wow.

 

Josh:

it's Sienna.

 

Josh:

How's it going, Sienna.

 

Sienna:

So good.

 

Sienna:

So happy to be here in our, in our

 

Josh:

In our basement.

 

Josh:

Unfinished.

 

Josh:

basement.

 

Josh:

Yes, The studio is unfinished.

 

Josh:

If you guys saw it, actually it might look like it could be a cult compound.

 

Sienna:

or I'm going to be murdered.

 

Sienna:

So if you don't hear from me on another episode,

 

Josh:

I'm going to be honest guys.

 

Josh:

It's more likely I'll get murdered.

 

Josh:

She's in way more shape than I am.

 

Josh:

Uh, so this may be my last episode.

 

Josh:

Uh, so I know you're a big family person.

 

Sienna:

Yes.

 

Josh:

And, uh, keeping in theme with last episode you were on about the family.

 

Josh:

You remember the Australian cult that forcefully adopted children?

 

Josh:

Yeah, That good one.

 

Sienna:

yeah.

 

Sienna:

Good times.

 

Josh:

I've brought you back to discuss another cult that centers around a family.

 

Sienna:

Um,

 

Josh:

Have you heard of the school of profits?

 

Sienna:

no, I have not.

 

Josh:

Okay.

 

Josh:

Well, they are a family.

 

Sienna:

Wow.

 

Sienna:

They're not a school.

 

Josh:

Well in a way, I guess they school.

 

Josh:

some people, in today's episode of let's start a cult, we will be talking about the school of profits, which is a fundamentalist splinter group established by a pair of devout Mormon brothers.

 

Josh:

rather than adhere to the teachings of their religion though, they instead form their own doctrine, one that called on them to murder their sister-in-law and her daughter.

 

Josh:

to appease God.

 

Sienna:

God.

 

Josh:

see their family, you know?

 

Sienna:

typical.

 

Sienna:

All Canadian, all

 

Josh:

Okay.

 

Josh:

Okay.

 

Josh:

That's good.

 

Josh:

So they're definitely not Canadian.

 

Josh:

but Yeah.

 

Josh:

you know, you have a little argument at Thanksgiving.

 

Josh:

Well, we're going to find out, I'm just saying comparatively, you know, you have an argument at Thanksgiving about, you know, religious

 

Sienna:

Oh yeah.

 

Sienna:

Religion and politics.

 

Sienna:

That's numb.

 

Sienna:

Both of the best topics.

 

Sienna:

Talk about,

 

Josh:

dinner.

 

Josh:

yeah.

 

Josh:

exactly.

 

Josh:

so it's similar, you know, but, uh, we're going to jump into the early years of the Lafferty brothers.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

Lafferty.

 

Sienna:

Is that not a, that's a name of famous people, right?

 

Josh:

Lafferty.

 

Josh:

maybe,

 

Sienna:

Is that James Lafferty's?

 

Sienna:

Does he play Nathan and one tree hill

 

Josh:

uh, you're asking the wrong person.

 

Josh:

Uh, I am an anti one tree hill fan.

 

Josh:

Um, so Watson Lafferty was one of the most successful businessman that Utah county had ever seen.

 

Josh:

He was a chiropractor who ran his practice out of his home in the historic quarter of the downtown Provo, the state's fourth, largest city there.

 

Josh:

He lived with his wife, Claudina, their six sons and their two daughters.

 

Sienna:

six, eight kids.

 

Josh:

That's a lot of kids.

 

Josh:

but That's true.

 

Josh:

I was going to say back in the day, but then you're like, yeah, that's my, my parents have,

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

so the Lafferty children had a very difficult.

 

Josh:

Apart from being forced to adhere to the Mormon church has strict rules.

 

Josh:

They were also made to completely obey their father already a good sign.

 

Josh:

For instance, when one of the Lafferty boys was playing with an arrow and accidentally shot himself as you do, you know?

 

Sienna:

like a bow and arrow.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

Bow and arrow.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

You know, he's just stabbing himself with an arrow.

 

Sienna:

I don't know.

 

Josh:

I, uh, what I assume happened is he like, you know.

 

Josh:

shot it up in the air and then it hit him or something.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I don't know the, I don't know the specifics

 

Sienna:

down pointing downwards.

 

Josh:

Oh, that's true.

 

Josh:

Maybe he launched it.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

so he shot himself and, uh, the father Watson refused to have him treated until the following morning since it was the Sabbath that day.

 

Sienna:

Where'd he get shot?

 

Josh:

Uh, it Doesn't say.

 

Josh:

that.

 

Josh:

No, no.

 

Josh:

That's why I don't know the specifics, but, uh, that, that's the story that's told.

 

Josh:

according to, John crowd.

 

Josh:

The author of the bestselling book under the banner of heaven, quote, Watson Lafferty, wasn't a fundamentalist, but he was a very severe disciplinary.

 

Josh:

He beat his children and his wife.

 

Josh:

He killed the family dog with a baseball bat in front of his children.

 

Josh:

So this was a very dysfunctional family and quote.

 

Sienna:

Yes, that's traumatizing.

 

Josh:

that is a, I mean, just starting off, you can already see that these children are being raised to be terrible.

 

Sienna:

Um, my dad dug my cat's grave

 

Josh:

I think that's a little different.

 

Sienna:

still alive

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

he didn't kill the cat.

 

Josh:

Let's specify that the cat was getting sick, so he'd dug a hole, make your dad's so,

 

Sienna:

No, no.

 

Sienna:

He took care of her anyways.

 

Sienna:

That's awful.

 

Josh:

yeah.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

So, I mean, not that all people with terrible parents become terrible.

 

Sienna:

There's a pattern.

 

Josh:

But you know, it's not a great environment to grow up in for sure.

 

Josh:

Watson may not have been a fundamentalist himself, but he was said to have sown the seeds of paranoia rebellion and fanaticism into his children, particularly his two eldest sons, Ronald Watson, who preferred going by the nickname, Ron and his younger brother, Dan.

 

Josh:

Both of whom were taught to distrust societal norms, including conventional medicine and the federal government.

 

Sienna:

is Dan not short for Dan?

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

So then why does Ronald get a special shout out to be like his name's Ronald, but he goes by Ron.

 

Josh:

his, maybe his name is Dan

 

Sienna:

goes anyways.

 

Sienna:

Sorry, I didn't actually hear what you said after that because I was too preoccupied

 

Josh:

with the Daniel, Dan.

 

Josh:

Okay.

 

Josh:

It's just a, you know, stir controversy and people question it they're like, why did he say Dan?

 

Sienna:

Something about the government

 

Josh:

Uh, Yeah.

 

Josh:

they, they, were both taught to distrust the government and societal norms in general, as well as medicine.

 

Josh:

So Ron and Dan were best friends known in their neighborhood for their hot temper and aggressive personalities.

 

Josh:

They weren't very close with their younger brother, Allen.

 

Josh:

Although some sources say that he looked up to them, not much else is known about the childhood of the Lafferty brothers.

 

Josh:

however, we do know that Ron and Dan became increasingly more fundamentalist in their beliefs as they grew older, they also began to mirror their father's sentiment regarding society.

 

Josh:

For instance, Dan reportedly refuse to pay taxes and adhere just traffic laws.

 

Sienna:

does he not go to jail for that?

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I mean,

 

Sienna:

do you mean?

 

Sienna:

You can't just be like, I'm not doing it.

 

Josh:

I mean, uh, Jeff Bezos does, and he's fine.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

Well,

 

Josh:

He only abides by the laws of the sky and space,

 

Sienna:

Is this the last we hear about the family,

 

Josh:

like the family, as a whole.

 

Sienna:

like the siblings.

 

Josh:

no, they come back.

 

Josh:

Well, not all of them, I guess, but, uh, I believe Alan comes back in this story, but, uh,

 

Sienna:

the rest of the kids.

 

Sienna:

Fine.

 

Josh:

I didn't research the rest of the kids.

 

Josh:

let's assume they had nice lives.

 

Josh:

in the Mormon church boys upon reaching the age of 19 are often encouraged to go on missions to far-flung places in order to preach about their faith.

 

Josh:

And the Lafferty brothers were no XL.

 

Josh:

And the 19 in 1960, Ron was called to serve in Florida Two years later, he returned to Utah and married a local woman named diet.

 

Sienna:

was this far fun place.

 

Josh:

I mean, they're from Utah,

 

Sienna:

like across the world though, like going to help and like communities.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

For.

 

Josh:

Ron decided to go to Florida, probably For.

 

Josh:

obvious reasons, you know, doesn't trust the state.

 

Josh:

Um, but I mean, Florida from Utah, that's pretty far.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

For 19 year old.

 

Josh:

That's pretty good, so he, he married a local woman named Diana and the couple went on to have a daughter whom they christened Carolee.

 

Josh:

Carol Lee.

 

Josh:

That's a weird name.

 

Josh:

meanwhile Dan served his mission in Scotland.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

There we go.

 

Josh:

Becoming the first Lafferty to set foot outside of the America.

 

Josh:

So.

 

Sienna:

world traveler.

 

Josh:

he is the only one and he comes back.

 

Josh:

So, uh, he, he meets a woman there named Matilda who had already had two daughters from a previous marriage, the couple married in 1977 and had another daughter whom they called Rebecca much normal, their name.

 

Sienna:

to say why?

 

Sienna:

What are the other girls' names?

 

Josh:

They don't get names.

 

Josh:

They're in a previous relationships,

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

Don't matter.

 

Josh:

although they, one of them comes up again.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Josh:

Initially Ron and Dan were dotting fathers, adoring their daughters and working hard to provide for their families.

 

Sienna:

don't like the initially.

 

Josh:

Well, I mean,

 

Josh:

it's got to go downhill sometime.

 

Josh:

as the years passed though, their religious beliefs became more and more fundamentalist.

 

Josh:

They started straying away from the Mormon church, believing that it was no longer following its founder's original teacher.

 

Josh:

Dan in particular, it was more effected by this perception.

 

Josh:

He began holding weekly meetings in there in his home preaching to a group of men, including his older brother, Ron, that the United States government was controlling Americans.

 

Josh:

he also spoke out against modern day Mormon teachings claiming that they weren't in line with the religions original doctrine,

 

Sienna:

do you know what our.

 

Josh:

the Mormon teaching.

 

Josh:

Oh, I have no idea.

 

Josh:

I'm not Mormon.

 

Sienna:

Me?

 

Sienna:

Same.

 

Sienna:

Whoa.

 

Sienna:

I had no idea this whole time.

 

Sienna:

I thought you were

 

Josh:

Uh, no, no.

 

Josh:

Uh, actually I know it's surprising with my fundamentalist beliefs.

 

Josh:

but Yeah.

 

Josh:

so, you know, they're starting to stress.

 

Josh:

and I have no, no doubt that if this man was alive in the 2010s, uh, that he would absolutely have a far right podcasts preaching, Uh, all these same things,

 

Josh:

on, or maybe on Fox news.

 

Josh:

around this time, Dan was excommunicated by the Mormon church after he attempted to practice polygamy.

 

Josh:

uh, that's not all.

 

Sienna:

What's the wife.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

With this?

 

Josh:

Uh, no, no, no, No, no.

 

Josh:

By taking his 14 year old stepdaughter as his wife.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I told you she comes

 

Sienna:

no.

 

Sienna:

Um,

 

Josh:

I'm going to leave her name out of this.

 

Sienna:

yeah.

 

Sienna:

Oh my God.

 

Sienna:

So keep going.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

So piece of shit, um, this angered him and he began ramping up his weekly

 

Sienna:

What angered him

 

Josh:

that he couldn't couldn't.

 

Sienna:

Did his wife divorced?

 

Josh:

Uh, no, actually she did not.

 

Sienna:

messed up.

 

Josh:

Uh, and I would like to say that, you know, it's the times, but this is like the eighties

 

Sienna:

maybe she's being abused

 

Josh:

that's fair enough.

 

Josh:

Fair enough.

 

Josh:

yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

 

Sienna:

to do right by your children.

 

Josh:

Oh Yeah.

 

Josh:

so he began ramping up his weekly meetings, naming the group, the school of profits credits

 

Sienna:

it.

 

Josh:

among those who regularly attended was his younger brother.

 

Josh:

Alan, as I mentioned, he comes back into school.

 

Josh:

Who in 1982 had married Brenda a college educated beauty pageant queen whom he met while in college.

 

Josh:

So he was a pretty, he's better often his brothers that way a year after their wedding, they welcomed a daughter into their family and calling her Erica another normal name or two for three so far.

 

Josh:

Unfortunately Alan's membership in the school of profits led to tensions between him and.

 

Josh:

He staunchly believed in his brother's ideologies, which he tried to implement in his own household.

 

Josh:

Brenda was fiercely opposed to these though, mainly.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

Yup.

 

Josh:

She stays with them.

 

Josh:

So I don't know, mainly because he wanted to be, I wanted her.

 

Josh:

to become a housewife and allow him to practice polygamy.

 

Sienna:

Oh, my God, the housewife thing, like I have days where I'm like, damn, I'd be a good housewife.

 

Josh:

I have days like that.

 

Sienna:

yeah.

 

Sienna:

I love to bake.

 

Sienna:

I like cleaning.

 

Sienna:

Sure.

 

Sienna:

I'll hang out.

 

Sienna:

I have hobbies.

 

Sienna:

I'll go get brunch with my friends and drink mimosas, but then, and then I'm like, no girl power.

 

Josh:

Independent.

 

Josh:

Yeah, Strong, independent woman.

 

Josh:

yeah.

 

Josh:

I don't trust me.

 

Josh:

I have those days where I'm like, damn,

 

Sienna:

get out.

 

Josh:

no, absolutely not.

 

Josh:

so these ideas also anger, Diana and Matilda, Ron, and Dan's wives respect.

 

Josh:

These three, the three women often got together to discuss the disturbing changes that they were seeing in their husbands with Brenda advising the other two to stand up for themselves and refuse to accept the fundamentalist belief system

 

Sienna:

that

 

Josh:

power to Brenda.

 

Josh:

Yeah,

 

Josh:

despite their Rocky households, their Lafferty brothers thrived in the group that they had created.

 

Josh:

Ron, in particular, who was revered by other members, mainly because of his claims that he received revelations from God.

 

Josh:

Ron named one of his divine messages, the revelation of removal, part of it, reportedly read quote, thus says the Lord unto my servants, the prophets.

 

Josh:

It is my will.

 

Josh:

And commandment that you remove the following individuals in order that my work might go forward.

 

Josh:

Before they have truly become obstacles in my path

 

Josh:

and will not allow my work to be stopped.

 

Josh:

First.

 

Josh:

Your brother's wife,

 

Sienna:

I was about to say, it's going to be the wife.

 

Josh:

her baby, then Chloe

 

Sienna:

one.

 

Sienna:

What way?

 

Josh:

I think, I think we all know.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

Yeah, It's.

 

Josh:

assumed, anyway,

 

Sienna:

Who's saying this again.

 

Josh:

this is wrong.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

then Chloe lo and Richard Stowe, and it is my wife that will be removed in rapid succession and

 

Sienna:

His wife

 

Josh:

yeah.

 

Josh:

And she won't let him fuck other women,

 

Sienna:

man.

 

Sienna:

The bar is

 

Sienna:

low.

 

Josh:

bars on the ground.

 

Josh:

And that an example would be made of them in order that others might see the fate of those who fight against the true saints of God.

 

Josh:

And it is my will that this matter will be taken care of as soon as possible.

 

Josh:

And I will prepare a way for my instrument to be delivered and instructions be given unto my servant

 

Josh:

and

 

Sienna:

talk about just how messed up for it is, like guys really want to be with someone out so badly.

 

Sienna:

They are like, God's telling me to do it.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I mean, it's pretty fucked up.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

I'm sorry.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

Just say it.

 

Sienna:

I just want to sleep with other people.

 

Sienna:

Just do it.

 

Sienna:

You can do it without killing her and she'll divorce you probably or whatever.

 

Sienna:

But if that's what you want, you don't have to kill her.

 

Josh:

That is, probably way more than they thought about this.

 

Sienna:

guess maybe they actually believed it.

 

Sienna:

Maybe they're delusional

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

And, and, uh, well, and to put it on, like, they're also like, Yeah,

 

Josh:

Pushed into very fundamentalist, Mormon church, which has probably like, you could absolutely not get a divorce.

 

Josh:

My assumption.

 

Sienna:

But why did they get wives?

 

Sienna:

Like that seemed normal when they knew that that's not what they wanted

 

Josh:

Well, like I said, at the beginning, they were kind of, they were good husbands, good fathers, and then they kind of started

 

Josh:

turning

 

Sienna:

is what makes it hard for the women to just leave because they saw them when they were like actually normal people and they were like, probably like, well, they can be normal.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

There, they were good

 

Josh:

people, especially college.

 

Josh:

Alan was probably a good dude.

 

Sienna:

a lot of times it's who you surround yourself with, what influence they have.

 

Sienna:

So in college he's probably surrounded by like like-minded people like Brenda and then went back to his brothers.

 

Josh:

of shit, brothers.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

The older two Lafferty brothers despise their sister-in-law Brenda, due to her, encouraging their wives to stand up to them.

 

Josh:

Her advice had led to Diana divorcing Ron.

 

Josh:

There we go.

 

Josh:

After what she took their six children with her back to Florida.

 

Sienna:

So she's safe.

 

Sienna:

So Ron was going to kill his wife though.

 

Josh:

a year.

 

Sienna:

Still planning on it.

 

Josh:

Well, she's gone now.

 

Josh:

Maybe he's like, I don't have to

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Josh:

just, uh, I'm putting my mind, you know?

 

Josh:

but he still furious that Brenda

 

Josh:

for convincing his wife to leave.

 

Josh:

Right.

 

Josh:

which is not, not, not, not, not, defending him by any means, but that's just what he's thinking.

 

Josh:

I assume.

 

Josh:

so Matilda also initiated divorce proceedings against

 

Sienna:

love it.

 

Josh:

Forcing him to move out of their home in Utah.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

Why it, Brent?

 

Sienna:

I guess Allen might not be that bad.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

Like I, like I said, Alan might be more and if Brenda's standing up to him, baby.

 

Sienna:

And he's not.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

If the home life is still yeah, yeah.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

the two other individuals mentioned in the revelation of removal were neighbors that the brothers believed had offended.

 

Sienna:

Get off my lawn.

 

Josh:

instance, Chloe low was a close friend that provided Diana with some much needed support when she was challenging.

 

Josh:

Ron's radical beliefs.

 

Josh:

Meanwhile, Robert Stowe was a member of the Mormon church who presided over Ron's excommunication, fortunately for both low and.

 

Josh:

That's funny, their names are alive.

 

Josh:

They have nothing to do with each other, other than, this weird man.

 

Josh:

they managed to survive what the revelation of removal had outlined for them.

 

Josh:

Brendan Lafferty and her daughter though.

 

Sienna:

Oh, no, they were like the good peop the good guys in this story stop.

 

Sienna:

Did Alan kill them?

 

Josh:

We're going to find out.

 

Josh:

Um, but do you know who won't murder your sister-in-law and her daughter?

 

Sienna:

Hopefully everyone.

 

Josh:

Yeah, that's

 

Josh:

true.

 

Sienna:

a sister.

 

Josh:

Okay.

 

Josh:

Well, not yet.

 

Sienna:

you don't either.

 

Sienna:

You have a sister-in-law yes, you do.

 

Josh:

I do but no, the products and services that support this podcast and, uh, pay for this lovely unfinished basement.

 

Sienna:

Uh, can you pay us a little bit more?

 

Josh:

We'd like, uh, you know, some flooring.

 

Sienna:

whenever they put on, I don't know.

 

Sienna:

What do they do within these walls to make them look

 

Josh:

drywall?

 

Sienna:

That's it?

 

Josh:

they need dry wall

 

Josh:

on this wall.

 

Josh:

So, but Yeah.

 

Josh:

so please enjoy some ads so that we can finish our basement.

 

Sienna:

Nice.

 

Josh:

All right.

 

Josh:

We're back.

 

Josh:

Is there a basement for this?

 

Sienna:

No

 

Sienna:

damn.

 

Josh:

so we last, left off on a little bit of a cliffhanger.

 

Josh:

You know, it's not looking good for Brenda.

 

Josh:

and we are actually going to get into the murders that

 

Josh:

take place.

 

Josh:

it's not great.

 

Sienna:

why did you choose this

 

Josh:

you know, family.

 

Sienna:

it's fine.

 

Sienna:

We just won't post sleep tonight then.

 

Josh:

So after their divorce is the two older Lafferty brothers went on a road trip together

 

Sienna:

nice

 

Josh:

at times, living in Ron's green Impala wagon.

 

Josh:

However, on the morning of July 24th, 1984, they were back in Utah, accompanied by a pair of hitchhikers named Ricky nap and chip Kerns.

 

Josh:

Both of whom they'd picked up while on their travel.

 

Sienna:

chip sounds like a hitchhiker

 

Josh:

It does sound like I have a check you're right.

 

Sienna:

Hmm.

 

Josh:

so they apparently convinced these people to help them.

 

Sienna:

Oh, my God.

 

Sienna:

That's the hitchhikers for ya?

 

Josh:

They're like, Yeah, We'll give you a ride if you help us

 

Josh:

kill our shitty stepsister or

 

Josh:

sister-in-law.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

the four men armed themselves with knives, a sawed-off shotgun and ammunition before driving to the duplex where Allen lived with his family.

 

Sienna:

Did Alan B was he like, yeah.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

Sounds good.

 

Josh:

I don't believe he was Okay.

 

Josh:

with it Uh,

 

Josh:

he was at work at the time while Brenda and one-year-old Erica were at home approximately 1:30 PM.

 

Josh:

Ron

 

Josh:

Lafferty?

 

Josh:

knocked on his sister-in-law's door, carrying the sawed-off shotgun in his right hand while a knife was hiding in his boot.

 

Josh:

Nobody answered though.

 

Josh:

And the group drove away with Dan thinking that like Abraham, they just passed a test of faith from God.

 

Josh:

Wow.

 

Josh:

However, driving half a block away from the duplex, he turned the car around and headed

 

Josh:

back.

 

Josh:

Believing that it was perhaps him and not Ron who was supposed to fulfill the revelation of removal.

 

Sienna:

But,

 

Josh:

because Ron knocked on the door

 

Sienna:

oh my God.

 

Josh:

this time, it was him who got out and knocked on the door.

 

Josh:

And unfortunately this time Brenda

 

Sienna:

Why?

 

Sienna:

Didn't why

 

Josh:

Brenda

 

Josh:

Maddow, maybe she likes Dan better.

 

Sienna:

not her fault at all, but

 

Josh:

No, both Lafferty brothers pushed their way past Brenda with Dan swiftly pinning her to the.

 

Josh:

She begged them not to hurt her and Erica.

 

Josh:

However, her pleas fell on deaf ears.

 

Josh:

You might want to close your ears for this one.

 

Josh:

they violently beat her and punched her face repeatedly in a bid to subdue her.

 

Josh:

This was unsuccessful and they settled for tying the vacuum cord around her neck before brutally slitting her throat after killing Brenda Dan, headed into the nursery where baby Erica was sitting in her crib, he talked to her softly reportedly saying.

 

Josh:

I'm not sure what this.

 

Josh:

is all about, but apparently it's God's will you leave this.

 

Josh:

world, perhaps we can talk about it later.

 

Josh:

And he then held his niece's head before slashing her neck using enough force to nearly decapitate her.

 

Josh:

okay.

 

Josh:

You're you're good to listen again.

 

Josh:

despite just having murdered two people, Ron and Dan's blood Les was far from seated.

 

Josh:

They wanted to carry out the rest of their mission and drove to Chloe LO's house intending to kill her.

 

Josh:

Fortunately though she wasn't home.

 

Josh:

So they settled on breaking in and stealing a few valuables afterwards.

 

Josh:

They planned head to Robert stows home, but for some unknown reason, they ultimately decided to spare his

 

Sienna:

are they still with chip?

 

Sienna:

And

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

There's still with those two.

 

Sienna:

it's because he's male, isn't it?

 

Sienna:

That's why they were like, nah, we'll kill the women.

 

Josh:

Oh, yeah.

 

Josh:

I mean, they are pretty misogynistic, so That's not a bad claim.

 

Sienna:

so messed up,

 

Josh:

when Alan Lafferty arrived from, work at about 8:00 PM that evening, he walked into a horrific scene.

 

Josh:

in an article on the crematorium contributor, Madeline O'Brien wrote.

 

Josh:

yeah, you're going to want close your

 

Sienna:

close my eyes.

 

Sienna:

Are you going to act it out?

 

Josh:

quote

 

Josh:

according to the medical examiner, her throat was cut a six inch long incision sliced through her trachea, both the jugular veins and both cardioid arteries and left a cut on her spinal column Blood was smeared everywhere.

 

Josh:

The drapes, the walls, light switches.

 

Josh:

It was obvious that there had been a major.

 

Josh:

Alan went down the hall towards baby Erica's room and found the little one propped against her back of the crib has slumped over her neck, gashed from ear to ear.

 

Josh:

The medical examiner determined that both Brenda and Erica were alive at the time, Dan viciously and without mercy slit their throats end quote.

 

Josh:

Did you hear some of that?

 

Sienna:

Kind of not like the start a little bit.

 

Sienna:

And then I started.

 

Sienna:

that so that I could not hear.

 

Josh:

Um, for everyone else that listened to that, uh, I apologize, but, uh,

 

Sienna:

So is Alan upset?

 

Josh:

yeah, so he, Allen calls the police sharing with them, his suspicions about the two older brothers, and told them about the revelation of removal.

 

Josh:

Although he admitted that he thought they'd never go through with it.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

Well, fair enough.

 

Sienna:

You probably thought.

 

Josh:

I mean kind of,

 

Sienna:

I don't know.

 

Sienna:

I would hope that if someone gave you death threat on my

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I was going to say, I think if anyone made death threats on you, I would definitely.

 

Josh:

Or anyone, if anyone made death threats, I think I would just immediately call the police.

 

Sienna:

true.

 

Josh:

but Yeah.

 

Josh:

I mean, I guess it's his brothers, maybe he didn't think

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

It's well, I mean, that's true.

 

Josh:

Anyway, his suspicion was cooperated by one of the neighbors who claimed they had seen a green station wagon parked outside the duplex around the time the murders were carried out and all points bulletin was put

 

Josh:

When police officers surrounded it though, the Lafferty brothers were nowhere to be found.

 

Josh:

And

 

Josh:

yeah.

 

Josh:

Instead of only nap and Karnes, the hitchhikers whom they picked up were in the, the only ones inside

 

Josh:

napping Carnes claimed to have no knowledge of where their Lafferty brothers were.

 

Josh:

However they did show the police of bloodstain knife, lab results later

 

Josh:

revealed.

 

Sienna:

kill them at all?

 

Sienna:

Or did they just come with

 

Josh:

they were just in the car.

 

Josh:

I don't even know if they went in the house.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

Moral support from

 

Sienna:

people you

 

Sienna:

just met,

 

Josh:

I don't,

 

Sienna:

purpose of that?

 

Josh:

I guess, well, this is kind of smart.

 

Josh:

If you think about it from a serial killer, you give them the car and then it leads them like your car away from you.

 

Josh:

Right.

 

Josh:

so, lab results later revealed that it had been the weapon that used, that had been used to murder Brenda, shortly afterwards on August 17th, 1984.

 

Josh:

Another tip came in saying that Ron and Dan had been spotted at circus circus.

 

Josh:

Casino in Reno, Nevada, does it have two circuses in the name as ridiculous?

 

Josh:

It was there that both brothers were finally arrested and charged with aggravated burglary, two counts of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

 

Josh:

Meanwhile, napping cards were also initially charged with murder, although they agreed to testify for prosecution and exchange in exchange for reduced charge.

 

Josh:

Which I mean,

 

Sienna:

Fair, but also you piece of shit,

 

Josh:

you

 

Josh:

should have just, Yeah.

 

Josh:

On the witness stand.

 

Josh:

The hitchhikers stated that Ron, after the murders pulled the bloody knife out from his boot and said, quote, I killed her.

 

Josh:

I killed her.

 

Josh:

I killed the bitch.

 

Josh:

I can't believe I killed her.

 

Josh:

And he then thanked Dan for slashing Erica's throat, claiming that he didn't think he would have been able to murder his baby niece.

 

Josh:

The Lafferty brothers chose to represent themselves at trial and were both found guilty.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

With Dan being sentenced to a life in prison while Ron was given the death sentence.

 

Josh:

However Ron sentence was overturned on appeal in 1991 with his defense team pointing out that his suicide attempt before the trial had caused irreversible mental damage because of this, he was declared in competent and sent to a state hospital to undergo treatment.

 

Josh:

But a few years later in 1996 Ron's competence was restored and he was again, sentenced with the death

 

Josh:

penalty.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I don't know how that.

 

Josh:

would.

 

Josh:

Why they, okay.

 

Josh:

The U S.

 

Josh:

Death penalty never makes sense to me.

 

Josh:

Why would they spend medical or resources to bring him back to health?

 

Josh:

Just to kill

 

Sienna:

him.

 

Sienna:

Yeah,

 

Josh:

Like, why not just, if you're going to do it, just do it.

 

Josh:

If you're not going to do it, do it.

 

Josh:

Just put them in jail.

 

Sienna:

with the death penalty.

 

Sienna:

Cause like, I don't believe in it in the sense that like, Well, I take a life for life.

 

Sienna:

Like it doesn't

 

Josh:

It doesn't

 

Josh:

help

 

Sienna:

it.

 

Sienna:

But the issue is, is like the purpose of prism is prism, prism, prism, the pink Floyd.

 

Sienna:

Is it put album?

 

Sienna:

Um, no prison, like technically.

 

Sienna:

Obviously, this isn't how it actually really happens, but it's to reform people to put them back out in society, but people like that who have killed a one-year-old baby should never be back in society.

 

Sienna:

So the purpose of putting them in for prison for life is like, okay, so they're going to reform, try to reform them.

 

Sienna:

It's just so I get it, but I don't get it, but yeah,

 

Josh:

yeah, I mean, and there's obviously issues with the current, uh, let's say north American prison system, because ours isn't great.

 

Josh:

Either the Canadian one is about the same.

 

Josh:

You just lock people up and then

 

Sienna:

Yeah, they don't

 

Sienna:

give them the resources and some people deserve resources.

 

Sienna:

Some people are in there for things that like growing up, like it was influential, like peop you know what I mean?

 

Sienna:

Like the smaller kind of things.

 

Sienna:

And they deserve to have like educate and some do get education and stuff like that.

 

Sienna:

But for people who are doing stuff like this, it's like, yeah, no, you don't deserve anything.

 

Josh:

Yeah, definitely.

 

Josh:

Man.

 

Josh:

It's it is tough because like, these people definitely deserve to be behind bars for the rest of their lives.

 

Josh:

but Yeah,

 

Josh:

it does it killing them, really solve anything.

 

Josh:

I mean,

 

Sienna:

dunno.

 

Sienna:

They deserve it.

 

Sienna:

I don't, it's hard to say because in my mind, it's like, I'm just thinking about, I have a one-year-old niece,

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

yeah,

 

Josh:

I, I agree with you.

 

Josh:

I like they they're pieces of shit.

 

Josh:

Am I sad?

 

Josh:

He's gone.

 

Josh:

no, Am I like, could he have been reformed

 

Sienna:

no, he may be sure.

 

Josh:

mental, you know, uh,

 

Sienna:

does he deserve to be reformed?

 

Josh:

that's the moral question, right?

 

Sienna:

it's tough.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

Let's see.

 

Sienna:

I'm going to, this is going to keep me up at night, so we gotta, we gotta move on.

 

Josh:

Alright.

 

Josh:

Um, so unfortunately the twisted tail of the school of prophets continued long after the Lafferty brothers were put behind bars and the early two thousands, a woman named Christie Strack who developed

 

Josh:

What began as a close friendship between two unlikely individuals developed into a full-blown romance.

 

Josh:

With Dan, even cutting off his waist length hair and sending them to Strack.

 

Sienna:

That's so weird.

 

Josh:

However, her visiting privileges were finally revoked by prison officials later.

 

Josh:

It would be revealed that Strack and her husband Benjamin had a history of drug addiction, and mental illness.

 

Josh:

They also reportedly feared that impending apocalypse and often turned to Dan for Sure.

 

Sienna:

From prison.

 

Josh:

From prison.

 

Sienna:

How has, how are people in prison allowed to communicate and have influence on, uh, outside world?

 

Sienna:

Some people, okay, now we're getting back into it, but some people should, but how does your, how can people like him be allowed to have that?

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

there should be some sort of screening process for sure.

 

Josh:

Maybe.

 

Josh:

yeah, I dunno.

 

Sienna:

I would be, if I was a prison guard.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Josh:

Like

 

Sienna:

I like if I was in the mail room or something, you better, that's a federal offense though.

 

Sienna:

Isn't it reading?

 

Sienna:

People's

 

Sienna:

mail, but I would be, oh God, I begin all the T

 

Josh:

Uh, it's a good thing.

 

Josh:

You have nothing to do with the food And the prison system.

 

Josh:

yeah, I don't know.

 

Josh:

Again, it comes back to the moral cause you want people to be able to reintegrate into society when they inevitably get out,

 

Sienna:

absolutely.

 

Josh:

this guy ever get out?

 

Sienna:

still with people.

 

Josh:

Yeah,

 

Josh:

I dunno.

 

Josh:

It's, it's a gray area for sure.

 

Josh:

But in 2008, distracts began homeschooling their children.

 

Josh:

Although court records show that they were convicted of forgery, and disorderly conduct around the same time.

 

Josh:

Christy was also taking methadone, which had been prescribed to help treat her opiate addiction.

 

Josh:

So she's doing great.

 

Sienna:

Well, I mean, I guess it's good that she's treating.

 

Josh:

With more drugs?

 

Josh:

yeah, I don't know.

 

Josh:

On September 27th of that year, Benjamin and Christie, along with her three children, , 14 year old Benson twelve-year-old Emery and 11 year old Zion were found dead in their homes, surrounded by a cup filled with lethal cocktail of methadone and cold misses.

 

Josh:

when questioned by investigators, Dan Lafferty denied being involved in the strikes, families, murder, suicide.

 

Josh:

Although he speculated that the couple had taken his hell on earth philosophy to heart.

 

Sienna:

all that's what I'm saying.

 

Sienna:

He like shouldn't have had influence on at the same time.

 

Sienna:

I'm sure.

 

Sienna:

they sound like they had issues.

 

Sienna:

Maybe it would've gotten there anyways.

 

Sienna:

Maybe they would've found another reason or another person or another whatever ideology, because to get to where they were.

 

Sienna:

But he's at fault a little bit for, I

 

Josh:

Oh, uh,

 

Sienna:

up.

 

Josh:

yeah, it's tough to say he's definitely some at some kind of fault, but it's hard to say how much, you know what I mean?

 

Josh:

Can you really charge him for anything?

 

Josh:

Not

 

Sienna:

yeah.

 

Sienna:

Like they are their own should not have.

 

Josh:

They were terrible people on their own.

 

Josh:

Yes.

 

Josh:

to conclude this whole family episode, rotten Lafferty was scheduled to be shot by firing squad in 2020

 

Josh:

becoming the,

 

Sienna:

still do that.

 

Sienna:

The firing

 

Josh:

Becoming the first American to be executed that way in nearly a decade.

 

Sienna:

they just like, we got to do

 

Josh:

I don't know,

 

Josh:

. Um, yeah, so It would be the first time in over a decade that this had happened, but it is still wild that it happens in the 21st

 

Josh:

century.

 

Josh:

however, November, 2019 Prison officials announced that the 78 year old death row inmate had died of natural causes

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Josh:

of shitty that he lived well.

 

Josh:

I mean, there you go.

 

Josh:

He lived his whole life.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

So death row takes a while, I guess

 

Sienna:

that's weird to me that why does death row take that long?

 

Josh:

I dunno.

 

Josh:

I mean, I guess it's a good thing in some ways, if it like a false, like, um,

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

And that's a thing.

 

Sienna:

That's another reason why I think the death penalty should not be a thing because what if you're wrong?

 

Sienna:

What, what if the, you know what I mean?

 

Sienna:

Like,

 

Josh:

I mean, this was pretty cold cut, but again, I think it's just in case thing, you give them quite a few years.

 

Josh:

I don't know.

 

Josh:

the death of Ron Laverty, hasn't given any closure to those who loved Brenda

 

Sienna:

fair enough.

 

Josh:

her baby girl, though, an old neighbor of theirs.

 

Josh:

Kathy pays can't discuss the case without crying.

 

Josh:

Meanwhile, her daughter who was 14 at the time, often babysat Erica has never been able to talk about the murder.

 

Sienna:

What's all in up to.

 

Josh:

Good question alive and well, I don't know.

 

Josh:

what Alan Lafferty is doing.

 

Josh:

We can look it up.

 

Josh:

I don't know what happened

 

Josh:

now.

 

Sienna:

here we go.

 

Sienna:

One sec.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

So I found out that Brenda it's like about Brenda sister and she doesn't feel cheated that her killer will not be executed at all.

 

Sienna:

But it also says in here that, over the year she has stayed in touch with Alan Lafferty.

 

Sienna:

And so I'm just assuming that if they stayed in touch that maybe

 

Josh:

they're okay.

 

Sienna:

K.

 

Josh:

I mean, it's hard to blame Alan, right?

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I just was

 

Sienna:

if, if the family, like, if Brenda's family blamed Alan Cause I I'm sure it would be hard not to, but.

 

Josh:

I mean, it is tough, right?

 

Josh:

Like Allen was the best guy, but.

 

Josh:

he definitely was influenced by his older brothers and.

 

Josh:

I guess for him, it was probably hard to believe that they would actually do anything.

 

Josh:

He probably just believed that his brothers were angry about the divorce.

 

Josh:

and then, uh, the worst case happened.

 

Josh:

And, um, I don't know.

 

Josh:

I don't know.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

And maybe this led him to being a better.

 

Sienna:

Sorry.

 

Sienna:

I was still looking at more.

 

Sienna:

I feel like, like he's like out of the public eye, like doesn't want to be,

 

Josh:

I mean fair.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

was like a witness in the trial, but then this one says, Alan laughter he is remarried, but they were unable to find any further details

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I mean, good for him keeping a low profile.

 

Josh:

Hopefully he's a better person now.

 

Sienna:

I'd hope so.

 

Josh:

Um,

 

Sienna:

What a wild ride.

 

Josh:

a wild ride.

 

Josh:

So for many of the Lafferty's families, former neighbors, it's unfathomable how the two good Mormon boys managed to fool themselves into believing that the senseless murders that they had committed were ordered by.

 

Josh:

According to Ken Beck, a Bishop of the, with the Mormon church who knew the family well said, quote, it was a complete shock for all of us.

 

Josh:

It was just a quiet and lazy neighborhood.

 

Josh:

I think about it every year and quote,

 

Josh:

that is the school of prophets fun one.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

I loved that.

 

Sienna:

No.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

Family.

 

Josh:

It literally had everything to do with family.

 

Josh:

Like I said, we're keeping a theme when you come on.

 

Sienna:

my goodness.

 

Josh:

so, uh, what are your, what are your initial thoughts?

 

Josh:

I know it's.

 

Josh:

It's hard to call it a Colt, I guess,

 

Sienna:

I guess it's a call in the sense that they had an ideology and we're trying to influence people

 

Sienna:

and maybe they would have grown bigger if

 

Josh:

they didn't murder

 

Sienna:

someone and get caught right away.

 

Sienna:

But.

 

Sienna:

Good thing they didn't, and I guess they influenced more murders.

 

Josh:

Yeah, they did.

 

Sienna:

mind would be the right word.

 

Sienna:

Cause who knows how much

 

Sienna:

he

 

Josh:

Well, it's fair to say.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

caused would be a different claim, Dan specifically continued to influence, uh, when he was in Prison.

 

Josh:

so yeah, not, not quite, uh, the cult we're used to, it's more of, um, a weird murder

 

Josh:

case.

 

Josh:

With religious overtones.

 

Josh:

We'll go with that.

 

Josh:

I'm getting a, murder with religious overtones.

 

Sienna:

bye.

 

Sienna:

You're smelling.

 

Sienna:

Like the dust down here.

 

Sienna:

I was like, I was this bad.

 

Josh:

No, I was trying to make a joke and it went terribly.

 

Josh:

so before we finish off and get out of this basement,

 

Sienna:

Nice.

 

Josh:

it's time for Colt critique.

 

Josh:

you know what it is, we're going to rate it one to five.

 

Josh:

What would you rate the school of profits?

 

Sienna:

I'm going to give them a 2.5.

 

Josh:

Point five.

 

Sienna:

Two or a two, maybe a two, just because I was going to rate them a one.

 

Sienna:

Cause it wasn't really a call.

 

Sienna:

They didn't really get going, but at the same time, they were able to influence more people and from prison and they influenced those two hitchhikers randomly.

 

Sienna:

So I'm going to 0.5.

 

Sienna:

I guess they were, seemed very charismatic in that sense, but it wasn't really like a full-on cult.

 

Sienna:

So I don't get a full five.

 

Josh:

that's

 

Sienna:

me.

 

Sienna:

Yeah.

 

Sienna:

I still don't know.

 

Sienna:

How were you doing this rating scale?

 

Sienna:

If it's like, how much great of a cult they are, how much damage they did or they get a five, if they were like really nice and just spread good

 

Josh:

good hope and cheer.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

I don't know.

 

Josh:

It changes from guest to guest episode to episode cult, the cult.

 

Josh:

I, Yeah.

 

Josh:

I probably I'm going to go give it one star.

 

Josh:

, it just, because it was barely a cult, I would say I still framework it as a cult because they did have that religious over.

 

Josh:

and they were a little charismatic, but they definitely didn't get to the size or scope of many other cults.

 

Josh:

Yeah.

 

Josh:

they were just kind of shitty people.

 

Josh:

it seemed like.

 

Josh:

that really wanted to cheat on their wives.

 

Josh:

So

 

Sienna:

like, let's make all this stuff up so that we can do

 

Josh:

so that we can cheat on our wives.

 

Josh:

so yeah, definitely a super low,

 

Josh:

score.

 

Josh:

Um, Shitty

 

Josh:

guys,

 

Sienna:

trash.

 

Josh:

you know what, I think more women listen to those podcasts anyway.

 

Josh:

So,

 

Sienna:

Nice.

 

Josh:

so, when are you going to start a podcast?

 

Josh:

So you can shout out stuff on this episode?

 

Josh:

On my podcast.

 

Sienna:

do I, uh, when I have time,

 

Josh:

Okay.

 

Sienna:

be not for a

 

Josh:

Sometimes, yeah, someday.

 

Sienna:

I'd like to shout out chocolate

 

Josh:

Okay, which kind

 

Sienna:

me alive.

 

Sienna:

Reese's peanut butter

 

Sienna:

M and M's.

 

Josh:

God dammit.

 

Josh:

They better be sponsored in this podcast.

 

Josh:

well, I appreciate you.

 

Josh:

coming on as always.

 

Josh:

It's fun to have you on, cult,

 

Sienna:

in a few minutes.

 

Josh:

a cult classic, as I said before.

 

Josh:

So, uh, you're always welcome.

 

Sienna:

As long as I'm being Greg, that's all that matters to

 

Josh:

are beating Greg, from episode heaven's gate.

 

Josh:

I

 

Josh:

couldn't remember what number, where that was

 

Sienna:

Greg?

 

Sienna:

Is he rememberable remember Hopewell

 

Josh:

remember.

 

Josh:

Oh my God.

 

Sienna:

Okay.

 

Josh:

so that is the end of this episode.

 

Josh:

Uh, if you want to support this show, you can do so by rating reviewing and sharing the podcast on apple podcasts, pod, chasers, Oregon.

 

Josh:

If you want to split the show financially, you can do so@buymeacoffee.com slash let's start a cult so we can finish these floors and the walls.

 

Josh:

Put a, what do they call it again?

 

Josh:

What's it called again?

 

Josh:

Drywall.

 

Josh:

There

 

Josh:

you go.

 

Josh:

and if you really can't get enough of my voice, I have my other podcast read it on Wiki.

 

Josh:

You can go check that out.

 

Josh:

Uh, every Monday we come out with an episode, you can go check that one out if called it's called CERN enough for you.

 

Josh:

And you want to hear, but Yeah.

 

Josh:

I've called start doing it for you.

 

Josh:

And you want to hear about history paranormal or.

 

Josh:

Uh, not safe for work.

 

Josh:

smart readings.

 

Josh:

You can go check out, Reddit it on Wiki.

 

Josh:

thank you, Fred for listening and Thank you.

 

Josh:

Sienna for coming on today.

 

Josh:

We will See you next time.