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In 1989, the Metropolitan Government of Tokyo officially recognized “Aum Shinrikyo” as a legitimate religious movement.
Little did they know that five years later, that same group would carry out a violent terrorist attack on the city, leaving 13 dead and a thousand others severely injured.
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Josh:
Hi, Fred.
Josh:
My name is Josh shell host of the let's start a cold podcast.
Josh:
The podcast that will one day get a larger payout than Joe Rogan.
Josh:
We will start the negotiations at 400 million.
Josh:
Your move Spotify.
Josh:
Now with that delusion, , of grand jury.
Josh:
It was grand jury, the right word,
Sienna:
Grand Deere grander.
Josh:
jury, whatever.
Josh:
It's time to introduce my guests.
Josh:
This episode as Valentine's day is this week.
Josh:
It only feels appropriate to bring on my Valentine and recurring guests to the show Sienna, how are you doing today?
Sienna:
I'm great.
Sienna:
How are you
Josh:
Um, I'm good.
Sienna:
happy to be here in our basement?
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
yeah, our, our infamous basement actually it's as it's become on Reddit, on Wiki and the show.
Josh:
so are you okay with this being our Valentine's date?
Sienna:
I would not be okay with it.
Sienna:
If it says, if this was just our, the only thing for Valentine's day.
Sienna:
No,
Josh:
I don't know, I hate to break it to.
Sienna:
I know that's not true, so
Josh:
I'm just still waiting on that $400 million and then I'll take you out to a nice dinner,
Josh:
but until then, we're going to be talking about a cult as the show implies.
Josh:
Usually in today's episode of let's start a call, we will be talking about the story of AUM Shinrikyo.
Josh:
began as a religious movement soon became a military force that waged biochemical warfare against the civilians of Japan, despite its heinous crimes and death of its leader.
Josh:
Uh, EWM shin Rico remains active to this day, hidden under a new identity,
Sienna:
Oh, wow.
Sienna:
I've never heard of this
Josh:
really
Sienna:
unless I know the new identity.
Sienna:
I don't know.
Josh:
the new identity.
Josh:
And what is the new
Sienna:
I have no
Josh:
What have you it's Q and I
Sienna:
Oh my gosh.
Josh:
know I already get, had enough trouble with the Q and on people.
Josh:
So,
Sienna:
I want to stay out of that as well.
Josh:
yeah.
Josh:
So so you haven't heard of this, called, , shout out to Lindsay from yield crime.
Josh:
she recommends me a ton of calls and this was one
Sienna:
knew there was so many Colts?
Josh:
many that I find out.
Josh:
Every week, but yeah.
Josh:
So shout out to Lindsay for, for recommending this one.
Josh:
I have a list that I'm going through slowly of recommendations.
Josh:
But are you ready to learn about this terrorist organization?
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Oh yeah.
Sienna:
I'm strapped in.
Josh:
You're strapped in ready to go?
Josh:
what a Valentine's day?
Josh:
all right, so we're going to actually jump into.
Josh:
the early years, of the leader, I oh, this is going to be a bad pronunciation as Shara Shoko Shoko.
Josh:
And I apologize to all of Japan for the pronunciations that you're going to hear today.
Josh:
So before he became the Reverend founder of AUM, Shinrikyo.
Josh:
, Asahara Shoko was a partially sighted?
Josh:
boy named Matsumoto.
Josh:
She's
Sienna:
sighted?
Josh:
like you poor sighted like you,
Sienna:
yeah.
Josh:
but I think he was actually closer to being
Sienna:
blind.
Sienna:
Oh, okay.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Right.
Sienna:
Okay.
Sienna:
So here's some site.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
He had sight issues.
Josh:
he was born on March 2nd, 1955 in Japan.
Josh:
Kumamoto prefecture.
Josh:
is.
Josh:
Parents who wove Tata Mia mats for a living were incredibly poor and struggled to provide for their seven children.
Josh:
However, they managed to send them to a boarding school for the blind, perhaps hoping that it would be easier for him to be around people with the same disabilities.
Josh:
That's kind of nice.
Josh:
I don't, I don't understand why they would have more kids,
Sienna:
What do you mean?
Sienna:
That's like a huge problem.
Sienna:
In the world, there is so many factors going into that.
Sienna:
Why families have more kids to help them, like, especially in underdeveloped countries, like developing countries, like to help them?
Sienna:
Well, the reason people had a lot of kids to start off with was like farmers and stuff, and then they can help them with the work.
Sienna:
But now it's like, Developed countries, you have less kids cause you're sending your kids through school for education.
Sienna:
So you're paying for them.
Sienna:
But in other areas where they're not sending their kids, cause they can't afford it.
Sienna:
They probably are still having a lot.
Sienna:
And also birth control and education in areas where they're not getting education, then they're not.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Like birth control is anything, medical, whatever.
Sienna:
So like, yeah.
Josh:
I, yeah.
Josh:
Okay.
Josh:
As soon as I said it, I knew I was wrong, but then I agree.
Josh:
This is why I bring you on, you know, the expert
Sienna:
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Josh:
world issues.
Josh:
yeah, that's a good, good point, but it is nice that they managed to send them to a school, however, at school, Matsumoto was known as a bully who often dominated and scammed his classmates.
Sienna:
I kind of love it, but.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
After graduating in 1975, he tried to enter a medical school in Tokyo, but does the application was unfortunately.
Sienna:
That's too bad.
Josh:
Hitler all over
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
He decided to study acupuncture and pharmacology instead, which led him to opening his own pharmacy practice in the city of Chiba, where he sold Chinese medicines.
Josh:
in 1982, shortly after opening the pharmacy, Matsumoto was forced to file for bankruptcy yellow after he was arrested and convicted of selling.
Josh:
medicines with nowhere else to go, he decided to travel across the Himalayas, hoping that this would help him find enlightenment
Sienna:
definitely.
Sienna:
That makes
Josh:
spiritual journey,
Sienna:
you got caught committing a crime.
Sienna:
You got to go on a spiritual journey
Josh:
Exactly.
Josh:
Moses went up to talk to God.
Sienna:
to get the 10
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
He went up a hill, right?
Josh:
A mountain.
Josh:
Yeah, Same.
Sienna:
no.
Sienna:
Well, you're such an expert on the Bible who knew.
Josh:
Thanks.
Josh:
upon descending from the mountains, Matsumoto dedicated himself to a gone shoe, a Japanese sec that brought together three Buddhist traditions.
Josh:
My Yana tear of.
Josh:
Oh, my God.
Josh:
we're going to assume those are all pronounced perfectly.
Sienna:
I mean, I don't know enough about any of that.
Sienna:
So
Josh:
well, it's just three different Buddhist sex he established himself as a religious guru and to promote him this new image handed out photos of himself, levitate.
Josh:
Which he claimed proved that he had already achieved enlightenment.
Sienna:
so, he's actually like trying to prove that he was actually levitating.
Sienna:
Oh, I thought it was just like a thing.
Josh:
Like a
Sienna:
Yeah, exactly.
Sienna:
You could do that.
Josh:
I guess.
Josh:
I mean, it's technically both, but I think he's trying to
Sienna:
Show people that
Josh:
his brand is trying to prove that he has achieved enlightenment.
Josh:
So, Matsumoto also hosted meditation and yoga sessions, which he held at his one bedroom apartment in Tokyo.
Josh:
she abou a district.
Josh:
These proved to be incredibly popular and before long he had gained a small following.
Sienna:
So, they just came over and did yoga and like one room.
Sienna:
I mean, I guess that's what you'll get, you just need one room to do yoga.
Sienna:
So
Josh:
I'd be a little sketched out if I signed up for yoga and just showed up to a,
Sienna:
like,
Josh:
a 30 year olds apartments.
Sienna:
and wait, sorry.
Sienna:
Is it a one room?
Sienna:
Or was there one.
Josh:
one bedroom.
Sienna:
okay.
Sienna:
Cause I was going to say, imagine the kitchens there, the
Josh:
It's just a
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
A studio,
Josh:
It could be easily.
Josh:
I have no idea.
Sienna:
I'm assuming it's a separate room
Josh:
That'd be funny, just 20 people show up and he's like, all right.
Josh:
Find some space.
Josh:
but Yeah, so he's, he is gaining a small following, which is, good for him, bad for the world.
Josh:
But, in 1984, Matsumoto changed his name to Ashura.
Josh:
And left Agon shoe to create his own religion.
Josh:
He called it Aon shin Rico, which in English means the Supreme truth.
Josh:
So we're already at the, he's already naming his cult.
Josh:
So respect, according to wired magazine it quote, blended mystical Buddhism with Hindu daddies added the physical rigor of yoga and from Christianity drew on the concept of Armageddon and quote.
Sienna:
So he just like took a bunch of different pieces that he liked from other religions and put it into,
Josh:
blended it up and knowable and said, here you go.
Sienna:
Oh, there you go.
Sienna:
Interesting
Josh:
there's a lot
Sienna:
of religions, especially Catholic religions, they kind of just take what they want.
Sienna:
From
Josh:
we just believe this
Sienna:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Josh:
Yeah, no, I mean, it is a very common practice.
Josh:
So, so meanwhile Matsumoto or Ashura, as he was now called declared that he was simultaneously Buddha Jesus Christ and the Hindu God Shiva.
Sienna:
Hey, why not?
Sienna:
Well, some people believe that there's just one.
Sienna:
And then in their Def they appear different.
Sienna:
I don't know
Josh:
Well, I
Sienna:
you're going to go for it.
Sienna:
Go for it.
Josh:
so most Colts usually choose one.
Josh:
They're like, I'm Jesus Christ.
Josh:
I'm the Buddha this one.
Josh:
He's like, fuck it.
Josh:
I'm all of them fight me.
Josh:
so he also began selling devices that he claimed would help people achieve in life.
Josh:
These included electro caps and astral teleporters.
Sienna:
What is it?
Josh:
Well, I don't know what electrode caps are.
Josh:
Asheville teleporters sounds like, you know, you could teleport to a different
Sienna:
diamond,
Josh:
and yeah.
Josh:
Dimension or
Sienna:
maybe a manta and yeah, like maybe you meant it spiritually.
Josh:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Not that he could
Josh:
Obviously, obviously it's all fake,
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
but, since Ashura already had a number of followers from his days in a gone shoe, it was easy for him to amass more by 1987, he had already had about 1300 devotees membership skyrocketed through the following years, rising dramatically in 1989.
Josh:
When the metropolitan government of Tokyo legalized at you shouldn't Rico recognizing it as a religious organization.
Sienna:
Oh, wow.
Sienna:
So is he making money off this though?
Josh:
Oh, guaranteed.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
He's selling bullshit items.
Josh:
He's definitely making money off of it.
Sienna:
and stuff.
Josh:
Oh, well, yeah, probably.
Sienna:
Yoga classes, right?
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
he's got to upgrade to a bigger bedrooms.
Sienna:
True.
Josh:
He's like I have two bedrooms, double, the people I can have.
Josh:
Asher, ours followers, mostly consisted of the youth, as in most calls, usually.
Josh:
So according to wired magazine quote, they came from college campuses from dead end jobs and fast track.
Josh:
Thousands flocked to his embrace and seeking arms promise of enlightenment community.
Josh:
And most of all supernatural power, they were nearly all young wide-eyed kids in their early and mid twenties.
Josh:
Some dropped out of Japan's finest schools to join the cult, leaving behind families, friends, and bright futures.
Josh:
Others left the nation's top companies in steel, computers, insurance, and other fields.
Josh:
And.
Josh:
I like I'm insurance is added in there, insurance is a scam.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
but, uh, yeah, so he's, bringing in a lot of younger, easily impressionable people, in hopes of a brighter future.
Josh:
Fair enough.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
You know,
Sienna:
Leave your high stress jobs and I can
Josh:
Yeah, I was going to say, I feel, I feel that you could relate.
Josh:
to this one.
Josh:
Don't go join them.
Josh:
Please.
Sienna:
not to.
Josh:
Don't spend my 400 million
Sienna:
Yeah, though, we're getting, I wish.
Josh:
among those who joined, option Rico was Sachi endo, a 28 year old student from Kyoto university where he did it as experiments in genetic engineering.
Josh:
There was also a massive MI SU chia at 24 year old graduate student at the university of Sudoku.
Josh:
Yes,
Josh:
that's
Sienna:
just do the puzzles all
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Suit that's where it was invented.
Josh:
we'll go with scuba, whose research focused on the latest developments in the field of organic hemp.
Josh:
And then there was 26 year old foamy hero, joy, joy.
Josh:
You I'm so sorry.
Josh:
Who graduated from university with a degree in telecommunications and artificial intelligence.
Josh:
He joined a UME shin Rico after quitting his job at the national space development agency of Japan.
Sienna:
Oh, my goodness.
Josh:
Which has hired him only two weeks earlier.
Sienna:
Oh, I mean, stress of starting a new job.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
I do like how, the boomers nowadays are like, oh, kids, these days just quit right away.
Josh:
And it's like, well, it's been happening for
Josh:
it.
Josh:
Depends.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
if you don't like your job, don't,
Josh:
You
Sienna:
to do it for the rest of your
Sienna:
life, so,
Josh:
don't join a cult.
Josh:
But, you know, follow your passions.
Josh:
so when asked by officials, he told them that his role and the responsibilities entailed or incompatible with his interest in yoga,
Sienna:
Okay,
Sienna:
can you do
Josh:
yeah, you can have a side
Sienna:
hobby?
Josh:
you can do yoga and don't work.
Josh:
and less work was like,
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
We don't believe in it anyway.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
That's weird.
Josh:
another one of early followers with 30 year old.
Josh:
He did he do Maria Mariah marae,
Sienna:
You're doing amazing.
Josh:
sorry.
Josh:
Uh, an astrophysicist who had studied at the prestigious Osaka university after graduating, he was hired by Kobe steel, a billion dollar conglomerate that focused on metals, machinery, electronics, and biotech.
Josh:
So very smart
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
I was about to
Josh:
people that you, you would, well, I mean, the more I do this podcast, the more I realized that anyone could be checked, um,
Sienna:
But usually if you think you think of like uneducated people, like don't have connections
Josh:
but I mean, even the last one we did, the family was like, it was like doctors and psychologists and stuff like that who had.
Josh:
like, doctorates.
Josh:
So, it just goes to show you anyone can be
Josh:
convinced.
Josh:
so to recruit more members, uh, Shara and his followers use mediums that were popular with young people, such as videos and science fiction magazines there, they published articles and placed ads claiming that they could help others gain supernatural powers, like tell telepathy and levitate.
Josh:
I would like to let Cathy, I think that's my top superpower.
Sienna:
being able to move things with your mind.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
You could fly because you can move yourself
Sienna:
Oh, I guess so.
Josh:
or, or move something underneath you
Sienna:
I
Josh:
and then you're flying.
Sienna:
true.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Okay.
Josh:
It's pretty good
Josh:
power.
Josh:
Way better than levitation.
Josh:
Cause if you have telepathy, you can do levitation.
Sienna:
I guess I know, I didn't think about it that way, but you're right.
Sienna:
I guess you could, you could fly because you can move your body.
Josh:
Grateful force-field kind of things
Sienna:
How, yeah.
Sienna:
That, that's just your moving thing.
Josh:
well, I guess,
Josh:
yeah,
Sienna:
I don't know enough about telepathy and I'll look into it to try to gain it.
Josh:
We're going to have an argument about, let us know in the comments.
Josh:
can you put up force fields with telepathy?
Josh:
I feel that you could like, because you can move the particles in the air to create a dense barrier.
Sienna:
Well, I feel like you've thought about this a lot.
Josh:
have, this is
Josh:
my, it goes superheroes and then cults for me,
Sienna:
Nice.
Josh:
uh, Shara made sure whatever they published appealed to the use sense of alienation and isolation apocalyptic preaching.
Josh:
Also , resonated with them simply because they had grown up immersed in video games and cartoons that were filled with graphic depictions of violence, murder, and even.
Sienna:
I mean, I feel like that's now too.
Josh:
That's true.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
I mean, Well alienation and thing is like at an all time high, especially with the pandemic, but even social media,
Josh:
pushing people to the, like,
Sienna:
You're just on your phones.
Sienna:
You're not
Josh:
you're not connecting.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Like we're doing right now.
Sienna:
Yeah, exactly.
Sienna:
Even like video games though, and stuff now, like
Sienna:
violence,
Josh:
It's by it's violence and, and stuff like that.
Josh:
so
Sienna:
that.
Sienna:
they specifically said rape.
Sienna:
I'm now getting worried about.
Josh:
yeah, I'm now concerned about what Japan puts in their video games
Sienna:
Yeah,
Josh:
and cartoons.
Josh:
I feel that's not a common trope
Sienna:
not for children's stuff,
Josh:
No, but you know what I mean?
Josh:
Like even,
Sienna:
I mean, though it is and shows like game of Thrones
Sienna:
and like there it's definitely depicted
Josh:
You're right.
Josh:
You're right.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
That's fair.
Josh:
So I guess a good way to connect with your audience.
Sienna:
Nice.
Josh:
Hito marae, the young brilliant astrophysicist had learned about through a book on yoga that the group had public.
Josh:
He soon became one of Shara's most devoted followers, even going so far as to live permanently in a tiny cell that members use for meditation.
Sienna:
I hate that.
Josh:
So do I have someone with claustrophobia that would be the worst?
Josh:
some experts have claimed that youth were attracted to because they felt stifled by Japan's culture of individualism in favor of creating a collectivistic society.
Josh:
Most of them spend hours of the day studying only to graduate into a corporate world that forced them to work around the clock.
Josh:
The country was also a bustling metropolis crammed with millions of people where silence and peace of mind were practically unheard of.
Sienna:
I
Sienna:
mean, I've never been to Japan, so I can't, but like apps.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Makes sense.
Josh:
Well, I mean, even like I've never lived in a city city, like in the middle of a city.
Sienna:
I lived in Waterloo.
Josh:
Wow.
Josh:
Put a
Josh:
bustling,
Sienna:
city.
Josh:
shut it to Waterloo.
Josh:
but I can, I can kind of, relate to, you know, you study your entire youth and then just get put into a corporate world where you're expected to work
Sienna:
Oh, I
Sienna:
know.
Sienna:
That's literally, once again, this is, what's been going through my head lately where literally the rest of our lives we're working.
Sienna:
And if you don't love it, then you're gonna hate your life.
Josh:
Push for that four day 32 hour work week,
Sienna:
that's true, actually.
Josh:
pay.
Josh:
We got to demand it, rise up Fred taking back the corporate world and living our
Sienna:
Yeah, although there's nothing wrong with a nine to five.
Sienna:
Cause like UCL, those Tik TOK videos where it's like romanticizing, not having nine to five where they're like working whatever, but it's like nine to five.
Sienna:
So pretty dope.
Sienna:
Like you go in during the day and then you still have time to do things at night and you can enjoy your weekends and things like that.
Josh:
Well, I'm not saying get rid of 95.
Sienna:
No, no, I know.
Josh:
four day work week nine to five.
Josh:
So you have three days
Sienna:
Although I think when they were doing like the study or the, when they were implementing in other countries, I think they were doing longer work days
Josh:
Um, let's see.
Josh:
I
Sienna:
like 10 hour workdays for four days.
Josh:
I think we'd demand the same
Sienna:
But the issue is like, how do you make that happen across the board?
Sienna:
Like, what are you doing with people who are working in the service industry?
Sienna:
Just making sure their shifts
Josh:
Just more people,
Sienna:
I guess so, but the issue then is they're going to have to pay them more Or you pick that, I'm just thinking shift work.
Sienna:
It's like some people are working like seven shifts a week, say they're waitress saying they're their PM.
Josh:
different.
Josh:
Right.
Josh:
Because that's not, you're not, full-time usually
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
But that's what I mean.
Sienna:
So it was like, is this only for corporate jobs?
Sienna:
Is this only for office jobs?
Sienna:
Cause that's not fair either.
Sienna:
Like as a teacher, would I be working five days a week still.
Josh:
No,
Josh:
because the parents would be off.
Sienna:
That's true.
Sienna:
I
Josh:
So kids would get off an extra day.
Josh:
So any kids listening to this shut this off because we talk about not good things.
Josh:
but yeah, I think it's a good idea.
Josh:
You
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
I'm
Josh:
parents and kids get, uh, get an extra three day workweek, obviously service industry.
Josh:
You might have to work with that a bit
Sienna:
Well, cause that's the issue it's
Josh:
service industries screwed over.
Josh:
Anyway.
Josh:
I don't want to get into that.
Josh:
Like they get paid less
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Well that's what I mean.
Sienna:
Like, cause if there, if someone's working five days a week, then it's like, oh no, we're actually going to cut back your hours to implement so that everybody's working four days.
Sienna:
But then the.
Sienna:
Pay them more
Sienna:
for those four days then that's the problem.
Josh:
what I'm saying for salary workers.
Josh:
You just keep the same salary.
Josh:
yeah,
Sienna:
So it's anybody who's not working salary.
Sienna:
That's going to be where it's like,
Josh:
yeah.
Josh:
I mean, I haven't thought this entirely through.
Sienna:
I think about it all the time.
Sienna:
Just kidding.
Sienna:
Not really.
Josh:
But for corporate, it works pretty well for corporate businesses.
Josh:
I, uh,
Sienna:
And like anything federal or
Sienna:
like the
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
You'd have to figure something out for service industry, but,
Sienna:
I mean, they need there's issues
Josh:
there's tons of issues.
Sienna:
So
Josh:
Um, how did we get here?
Josh:
oh yeah, the corporate work world.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
So, you know, they used the call to escape that.
Josh:
and according to wired magazine, quote, one could understand why then the Japanese say They prefer to cultivate inner space, the inside of their homes, the inside of their minds and Aum offered the ultimate inner space.
Josh:
One that would take its followers on a direct line to outer space.
Josh:
And.
Sienna:
Whoa.
Josh:
You hate that space?
Sienna:
do hate it.
Sienna:
I like outer space.
Sienna:
I like it because it's cool, but I can't think of it too much or it freaks me out.
Josh:
Well, these people just thought about it all the time,
Sienna:
No, thanks.
Josh:
going on astral plane journeys.
Josh:
for many Japanese young adults, representative and escape from their mindlessness and meaningless reality because of this, the religions ranks swelled by the thousands each year.
Josh:
It's crazy.
Josh:
This is going to be one of the biggest calls I talk
Josh:
about.
Josh:
Yeah.
Sienna:
What's the biggest ones before this, like how many people,
Josh:
that's a great question.
Sienna:
how
Josh:
Probably Q Anon
Sienna:
Oh yeah.
Josh:
or the Nazi party.
Josh:
I don't know.
Sienna:
Well, yeah.
Josh:
the house of David was a whole town though,
Sienna:
Oh, okay.
Josh:
so, but depending on how many thousands was in that, but I'm pretty sure this one might be the big.
Josh:
Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Josh:
but in the late 1980s, Shara began making plans for international expansion.
Josh:
He turns his attention to New York city where he listed it as a nonprofit tax and charitable religious organization whose activities mainly consisted of translating and selling books.
Josh:
It didn't do so well in the United States though garnering only less than 200 members.
Sienna:
so, it's nonprofit.
Sienna:
He's not making money
Sienna:
or he's just saying it's
Josh:
I don't know how many nonprofits say they're nonprofit and then they actually make money.
Josh:
cause he's a religious organization so he can get away with being
Josh:
not.
Josh:
taxable.
Josh:
But, to be honest, he probably didn't make money in the United States, but he probably does in Japan really.
Josh:
and Russia because, uh, Shara was more successful in Russia where he amassed between 35,050 5,000 followers.
Josh:
The country became our largest arm outside of Japan with at least seven branches in Moscow alone.
Sienna:
That's crazy.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Well you gotta think like Russia around this time.
Sienna:
it's a
Josh:
Pretty high stress.
Josh:
eighties.
Josh:
So just after the cold war, right.
Josh:
But still it's a, it's not a great time, you know?
Josh:
so local networks of Rico were established in Australia, Germany, Indonesia, Taiwan, United Kingdom, Canada, Israel, Sri Lanka, Bellaruse Ukraine, Ghana, and Nigeria.
Sienna:
Wow.
Josh:
However, none of these were as popular or as large as the one in.
Josh:
As the years pass Shara's preaching began to focus less on religion and more on the apocalyptic vision that he had claimed to receive.
Josh:
Sometime in the early 1990s, he predicted that Japan would go through a series of disasters, including a war against the United States.
Josh:
He also said only members of whom Shan Rico would survive this devastation, allowing them to replace the government and rule Japan.
Sienna:
Nice.
Josh:
and once again, I don't know, if they'd win that war.
Sienna:
No.
Josh:
So interestingly enough, these apocalyptic predictions were corroborated by members who had once been signed to.
Josh:
The astrophysicist Hito Muray even became the groups, senior scientists whose work involved, figuring out how to use modern science to prompt.
Josh:
AUM Shinrikyo is teaching.
Josh:
So they're using science to prove his claims,
Sienna:
yeah.
Sienna:
Yeah,
Josh:
under Mariah's influence, I Shara ordered his followers to prepare for eminent war.
Josh:
They collected firearms and even develop their own biological weapons, using supplies on the nerve gas, serene that they had managed to get their hands on.
Josh:
This was the same gas used by Nazi Germany in world war II.
Sienna:
Oh my God.
Josh:
How did they get a
Josh:
hint?
Sienna:
are they getting the firearms?
Sienna:
Like, they're really like, they're pretty big religious groups.
Sienna:
So I mean like people got to know what's going on.
Josh:
yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Josh:
I guess they just let him get away.
Josh:
I have no idea, honestly.
Sienna:
I mean, I guess maybe gun laws and things weren't as developed
Josh:
know what the laws in
Sienna:
I have literally no idea.
Josh:
Russia, I could see our lenient Russian.
Josh:
I could see being leaned.
Josh:
And, Yeah, I don't know about Japan actually.
Josh:
That's, that's an interesting, I should do.
Josh:
I should have done research in that.
Josh:
I should look it up right now.
Josh:
Gun laws
Sienna:
Japan.
Josh:
and Japan.
Josh:
no one in Japan may purchase a handgun or.
Josh:
hunters and target shooters may possess shotguns and air guns under strict I don't know what that word means conditions basically.
Josh:
so I don't know if this is before or after, but
Sienna:
so that's stricter than Canada
Josh:
Uh, yes,
Sienna:
can have rifles, right?
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
so very interesting, wired magazine, further reported.
Josh:
Other scientists worked on synthesizing mustard, gas, VX, and other chemical killers and cult Biolabs equipped with the latest gear technicians, cultured agents that caused anthrax Q fever and boat, tourism botulism.
Josh:
Thank you.
Josh:
At the same time, assembly lines were set up to produce a thousand Russian machine guns and tons of TNT and quote.
Josh:
That's just
Sienna:
That's what, like, what are
Josh:
up for war.
Sienna:
I guess that if everyone were to die, but then I'm going to have to be a pretty intense war.
Josh:
C if it's everyone is going to die, except for their group, why would they gear up for war?
Josh:
Like you're not gonna win that fight.
Sienna:
Well, that's true.
Sienna:
I guess you're ready.
Sienna:
Like that, the way they made it sound as, as like, oh, everyone's going to die.
Sienna:
Except us.
Sienna:
It'll be like a spiritual thing.
Sienna:
Like they're going to be
Josh:
oh,
Sienna:
but then that, so then they wouldn't need weapons anyways.
Josh:
true.
Sienna:
They just not, they just live is what I'm saying.
Sienna:
Like God, or whatever they believe in would keep them alive.
Sienna:
That's what it's,
Josh:
say wind Guardium Olivia OSA,
Josh:
lift them up above,
Josh:
Japan will us and them fight and then put them back down after the fights done.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Or maybe they think that they're going to be like super power army soldiers, like captain America and like not die.
Sienna:
I don't
Josh:
I know no one else could take on the U S army, but we can with mustard, gas, I don't know what they were considering.
Josh:
It, it doesn't make any sense to me, but who knows?
Josh:
for a Shara transforming his religious movement into a militarized organization was away for a UWM Shan Rico to increase its power.
Josh:
And so he focused his efforts on achieving this.
Josh:
He ordered his followers to build a stronghold near Mount Fuji, as well as factories, where they could manufacture weapons.
Josh:
He also established a biological and chemical warfare program that was spearheaded by the virologists, psyche, and O who had been one of his earliest
Sienna:
followers.
Sienna:
Like, is this all going under the rug?
Sienna:
Doesn't sound like it.
Sienna:
I don't know
Josh:
It sounds like he has a, he holds a lot of power in Japan.
Josh:
You know what I mean?
Josh:
Like Maybe.
Josh:
They didn't do anything because they couldn't do anything.
Sienna:
True.
Josh:
uh, Shara also established a research program that he hoped would enable him to control the minds of others.
Josh:
This was led by doctor IKO Hey ashy.
Josh:
48 year old cardiovascular surgeon who conducted experiments on his fellow devotees.
Josh:
So they're doing experiments on
Josh:
followers.
Josh:
It's crazy.
Sienna:
Do you know if any of the followers like dropped out at this point?
Josh:
Oh, I'm sure there's some dropped out, but I'm sure he's gaining more than he's losing.
Josh:
You know what I mean?
Josh:
one of his victims was a 25 year old.
Josh:
Well, you know,
Sienna:
Are they
Sienna:
dead.
Josh:
doing experiments on their brain , so, Yeah.
Josh:
There's going to be some
Sienna:
Do you have anybody volunteer?
Josh:
I'm not sure if it's forced volunteer or like, uh, you're going to get into heaven if you do this kind of volunteer, you know what I mean?
Josh:
so one of his victims was a 25 year old Japanese army veteran who worked as, Shara's personal body.
Josh:
Dr.
Josh:
Hayashi, allegedly put electrodes in the man's brain using a surgical insertion made on his skull later.
Josh:
The man would recall quote, when I came to I was on the bed and didn't know what was going on.
Josh:
It seemed many days had passed, but I had no memory.
Josh:
When I touched my head.
Josh:
There were swollen spots.
Josh:
They were painful both inside and outside my head.
Josh:
It was a dull aching pain end quote.
Sienna:
I don't like that.
Sienna:
I don't anything.
Sienna:
I'm not big
Josh:
Yeah, yeah.
Josh:
Gore for person.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
they're just putting stuff in their head for
Sienna:
so this guy's alive though, or
Sienna:
you
Josh:
alive.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Who's to say how many died during these experiments, because that is a very dangerous experiment that I
Sienna:
Oh
Josh:
very wrong.
Josh:
So, besides these programs, uh, Shara also issued orders to recruit people from the Japanese military.
Josh:
This was fairly succinct.
Josh:
Nearly 40 active duty members of the self defense force.
Josh:
We're soon following him alongside 60 army veterans, and first Lieutenant in the country's second anti-tank helicopter unit who leads classified data to the group.
Sienna:
Oh my God.
Josh:
So they've got
Josh:
some
Sienna:
good for them.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
well, good for them.
Josh:
I
Sienna:
I mean
Josh:
I'm sure Japan wanted to keep that a secret.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
Despite the scale of these efforts, Shara believed that they weren't enough to consolidate his power in February, 1990, he established the shin Rito.
Josh:
And long with 24 of his followers grand during an election for the house of representatives.
Josh:
However, they failed to garner enough votes to secure seats within the government.
Josh:
Perhaps this failure was the reason why in 1994, uh, Shara decided to reorganize and do something that resembled a shadow governor.
Sienna:
Great year.
Josh:
Yeah, it was a great
Josh:
year
Sienna:
a
Josh:
no
Sienna:
recent model.
Josh:
You'll never know my age.
Josh:
according to experts is structured, was a blend of medieval theocracy, and post-war Japan with the constitution and 24 different ministries.
Josh:
So they built out an entire government.
Sienna:
well, not legitimate, but.
Sienna:
Yeah,
Sienna:
ill legitimate,
Josh:
government.
Josh:
to lead these ministries, uh, Shara chose his most loyal followers.
Josh:
For instance, Hito Mariah became minister of science and technologist.
Josh:
While the viral logist Cici endo was appointed minister of health and welfare.
Sienna:
Is he the one doing experiments?
Josh:
Uh,
Sienna:
I can't
Sienna:
remember.
Sienna:
There's so many
Josh:
he D he though was the one, I think, doing experiments, Uh, no, no.
Josh:
Sorry.
Josh:
None of, neither of those were doing the experiments.
Josh:
It was a high ashy.
Josh:
he was doing experiments.
Josh:
so luckily he doesn't have that bad.
Josh:
Well, he may, you know, who
Sienna:
Ministry of health.
Sienna:
That's why I was like, well,
Josh:
Everyone must get
Sienna:
yeah.
Josh:
Meanwhile, an engineer name, Caio, Hyde.
Josh:
I Aqua became the minister of construction.
Josh:
Ironically enough.
Josh:
He had been in charge of creating weapons of mass destruction.
Sienna:
my gosh.
Sienna:
Ridiculous.
Josh:
He's like, I don't have to take it.
Josh:
down.
Josh:
I know how to build it.
Josh:
Oh, are you mission Rigo Became increasingly violent throughout the early nineties In 19 nine, before members filled a reporter's apartment with biosim gas, which nearly killed her that same year, they targeted the city of Matsumoto in Japan's negative.
Josh:
Prefecture whose residence, as opposed as Shara's proposal of establishing a factory and its Southern region.
Josh:
This had led to a lawsuit, which at the time was still being reviewed by the court on the evening of June 27th, 1994 members of a UME shin Rico, released a cloud of Seren gas from a converted refrigerator truck.
Josh:
They aim to assassinate the three judges who were presiding over their lawsuit.
Josh:
However, they ended up killing seven people that night and ate the victim.
Josh:
A woman named Tamiko.
Josh:
Kono laid in coma for more than a decade before passing away in 2008.
Sienna:
how has the government not like they created a shadow government?
Sienna:
You think the Japanese government would be like, ah, we got to do something about these people.
Josh:
honestly, kind of on their bed, but you know what,
Josh:
as I think about it, the amount of, you know, United States and Canadian cults that have been very clearly a terrorist organization and the government's just kind of overlook it is ridiculous.
Josh:
I mean, Q Anon just gets to do whatever the fuck they want now.
Sienna:
That's true.
Sienna:
They're turning a blind eye.
Josh:
Like, what can you really do to a cult of belief?
Josh:
How do you
Josh:
stop that?
Josh:
you
Josh:
can, you can deep military demilitarize them,
Sienna:
well that's yeah.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
they're still going to believe.
Josh:
And that might even force them to, yeah, I don't know.
Josh:
It's, it's a tricky thing and, uh, I'm not the one to figure it out.
Josh:
That's up to the professionals.
Josh:
So as disturbing as these incidents were, none of these came close to the Tokyo subway attack, which showed just how far AUM Shan Rico was willing to go.
Josh:
So do you know who will not put you in a coma?
Sienna:
an ad break.
Josh:
This Is an ad breaking subtle satellite now.
Sienna:
Try again.
Sienna:
Let's go
Josh:
Uh, so do you know who won't attack your subways?
Sienna:
the subway franchise.
Sienna:
You should have dude, subway ad.
Josh:
I don't want to do it.
Josh:
So
Sienna:
Okay.
Josh:
anyone associated with Jared is,
Sienna:
Oh yeah,
Josh:
yeah, so, not subway, but maybe, well,
Sienna:
I think that Cookie's still in my bag.
Josh:
the subway cookie.
Josh:
Yeah.
Sienna:
I don't throw that up.
Josh:
but yeah, the, so the, the products and services that support this show, uh, they won't put you in a coma or what else did I say?
Josh:
Oh, attack your subways.
Josh:
They won't attack her.
Josh:
So.
Josh:
Alright.
Josh:
And we are back.
Josh:
I hope you purchased a product and or service
Sienna:
In that odd break just went right to the Chrome.
Sienna:
Searched it
Josh:
hope it wasn't subway.
Sienna:
Hey,
Josh:
So it's time to get into the Tokyo subway attack, not subway though, the franchise, but subway is in the trailer.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Metro.
Josh:
Yeah, exactly.
Josh:
on March 20th, 1920, 1995, almost at 25, we went back in
Josh:
time.
Josh:
those teleporters worked,
Sienna:
Oh my gosh.
Josh:
with the police closing in on him due to his previous crimes.
Josh:
Uh, Shara ordered five of his followers to release the nerve gas sarin.
Josh:
Did we re Seren into Tokyo subway system?
Josh:
They carried bags filled with highly toxic substances.
Josh:
which they then punctured before leaving behind on the train, according to the encyclopedia Britannica quote as liquid in the bags started to vaporize, the fumes began affecting the passengers.
Josh:
The trains continued on towards the center of this.
Josh:
With second passengers leaving the cars at each station, the fumes were spread on
Sienna:
where they letting other passengers on it,
Josh:
Well, I don't know if the train conductor in is necessarily knew, right?
Sienna:
every single one of them.
Sienna:
Should I got off at the next station and be like, don't get on.
Josh:
Yeah, you're right.
Josh:
I mean, they might, yeah.
Josh:
Who knows?
Josh:
I don't know how it was working.
Josh:
People are just getting back on.
Josh:
They're like I got places to go, you know, corporate, corporate Japan keeping me down, um, so the train continued on towards the city center was sickened passengers, leaving the cars at each stage.
Josh:
The fumes are spread at each stop either by, emanating from the tainted cars themselves or through contact with liquid contaminating people's clothing and shoes.
Josh:
Many of the individuals who were overcome by the exposure to the Sarah Saron during the attacks were those who came into contact with the agent while trying to assist those who had already been stricken.
Josh:
And
Sienna:
I don't know.
Josh:
in the end, the attack left 13 people dead and thousands of others severely injured
Sienna:
oh my gosh,
Josh:
among the victims were two subway employees who had died while trying to remove the Seren bags of fifth.
Josh:
Sarah Anfield bags,
Sienna:
siren.
Sienna:
I
Josh:
siren filled bags at the Cassa costume at the station.
Josh:
Cassie gum.
Sienna:
station.
Sienna:
Okay.
Sienna:
I mean, wow.
Sienna:
Like they're heroes trying to
Josh:
yeah, it's sad
Josh:
that they, they
Sienna:
my gosh.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
two days after the attack, the police conducted a massive raid on shouldn't Rico's offices in Tokyo it's laboratory headquarters at the city of, Can we shoot?
Sienna:
Oh
Sienna:
my gosh.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
It's so long.
Josh:
Kimmy que Shiko cheeky in.
Josh:
Yeah, man.
Josh:
She prefecture was also rated where they seized canisters filled with toxic chemicals that have been used to create the Seren gas, Well, the shower initially denied his group's involvement in the attack.
Josh:
The evidence that the police found during the raids were more than enough to arrest him and hundreds of his followers
Sienna:
that's the problem with the justice system though?
Sienna:
Like they had all that stuff.
Sienna:
It was clearly they're a terrorist organization and it took an actual tack for them to be.
Josh:
to do something.
Josh:
yeah, Yeah.
Josh:
The justice system is usually reactive, not proactive as we've we've experienced in our lifetime.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
so.
Josh:
I dunno, like you definitely needs an overhaul for sure.
Josh:
if any police are listening, I'm not saying like, you know, lose
Josh:
your job, but I think that's part of the movement towards defund.
Josh:
The police has to work on more
Josh:
proactive.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
And it's not the police officers themselves.
Sienna:
It's a system.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
if you invest in communities and lower income places, maybe there'll be less
Sienna:
And you have social workers and
Josh:
social workers.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Instead of killing everyone you meet
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Or Yeah.
Josh:
or arresting them or allowing them to kill someone, you know?
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
so yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate.
Josh:
It is what it is.
Josh:
I don't know.
Josh:
I can't change the system.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Josh:
We'll start with the four day work week and I'm sure Klein crimes will go down.
Sienna:
Yeah, that's true, actually.
Josh:
Um, so in October of that year, the Japanese government stripped AUM Shinrikyo of its status as a religious organization.
Josh:
However, this wasn't enough to dissolve the group.
Josh:
I assume shin Rico remains active to this day, operating under the name LF.
Sienna:
a L E F.
Josh:
Yeah, you're close a L E P H.
Sienna:
Oh, okay.
Josh:
so in conclusion, in 2004, after an eight year trial, as Shara and 13 of his followers were sentenced to
Josh:
death.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Cool.
Josh:
Well, it's like there's a lot,
Josh:
you know what I mean?
Josh:
Like it's a big case and I'm sure there was lots of, arguing back and forth.
Josh:
They're in jail at this point.
Josh:
They're not just out on the street.
Josh:
So, uh, Shara and 13 of his followers were sentenced to death after being convicted of charges related to the Tokyo subway attack.
Josh:
He attempted to file an appeal in 2006, but this was denied on the morning of July 6th, 2018.
Josh:
Japan's ministry of justice confirmed that 20, 63 year old had just been exicted.
Josh:
The story of sh are you mission Rico is disturbingly fascinating, simply because no other calls has managed to carry out terrorist attacks using biochemical weapons that they themselves had developed as wired magazine, put it quote a college education, some basic lab equipment
Josh:
I have simply become too widespread, too decentralized to stop a coming of era, do it yourself machines for mass murder, end quote.
Josh:
And this is unfortunately the legacy.
Josh:
I have a UME Shan Rico.
Sienna:
not great.
Josh:
No, not, not, not great.
Josh:
and it is a dark like, cause that is something people worry about.
Josh:
Right?
Josh:
Like you can just get anything you want from the internet.
Sienna:
I knew how to videos on
Josh:
How to make Sur serin gas, how to, 3d to start a called how to 3d print a gun, how to 3d print anything
Josh:
basically.
Josh:
it's a, it's a little scary.
Josh:
how do you combat that?
Josh:
Like, I don't think you really can.
Josh:
I think it's a hard thing to combat.
Josh:
Once it's entered on the internet, it's out there and most people can get access to it.
Josh:
so there's the dark, thought we leave it on.
Josh:
before we end today's episode, you know what, you know what time it is,
Sienna:
super bowl,
Josh:
what it is, super bowl, cult critique.
Sienna:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Out of five, right.
Josh:
it is at a five.
Josh:
For those who are new to listening to this show at the end of every episode, we rate and review the call that we just talked about as if it was a Yelp review.
Josh:
So out of five stars, what do you think the AUM Shinrikyo cult?
Josh:
is, is,
Josh:
was
Sienna:
Uh, see, that's hard.
Sienna:
And I know you don't have any like actual system and it's just like, you could rate it.
Sienna:
Like, if it was really bad, you could give it five.
Sienna:
If it was really good, you could do it.
Sienna:
Like,
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Sienna:
So I dunno, I guess I'm giving it, I'll give it a four.
Sienna:
Because they reached across the world and that began in the seventies and eighties, right.
Sienna:
Nineties.
Sienna:
So that was before like social media.
Sienna:
So they were able to still like,
Sienna:
go worldwide
Josh:
there was like a, there was internet still
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
But
Josh:
But I understand what you were saying.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
Yeah.
Sienna:
And they were able to literally create their own weapons and they had a shadow
Josh:
shadow
Josh:
government.
Josh:
which is impressive.
Sienna:
is impressive and that they weren't shut down.
Sienna:
So I'm going to go with a four because they were managed to do all that themselves.
Sienna:
And I mean, it started out as a little yoga thing.
Sienna:
So look how far they
Josh:
so just goes to show you yoga
Sienna:
believe in yourself, but obviously it's horrible for the people who lost their lives and stuff.
Sienna:
Like that's insane.
Sienna:
Like it's, it's, deplorable,
Josh:
Oh, absolutely.
Josh:
And, uh, as much as I am against the death penalty, if anyone deserved it, it was probably him.
Josh:
I don't, his followers is questionable because it's like,
Josh:
how much can you blame the
Sienna:
I mean, the people
Sienna:
who are creating the
Sienna:
weapons and doing the experiments, I mean, Monya
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
But then do you take it back to.
Sienna:
like, how far do you go
Josh:
the nuclear bombs.
Josh:
Do you blame the scientists for building that?
Sienna:
but yeah, well,
Josh:
yeah.
Josh:
It's hard
Josh:
to decipher where that gray zone is and where, Yeah.
Josh:
so I definitely blame him and he should definitely have been punished.
Josh:
again, death penalty, I guess if anyone deserved it, it was him, his followers, maybe
Sienna:
Punished,
Josh:
could have, they could have maybe made over like a recovery and made a better life for
Josh:
themselves.
Josh:
I don't know.
Sienna:
agree.
Josh:
life
Sienna:
So are still people, are people still following this today?
Josh:
So, uh, LF, uh, or however you pronounce it is, is still an active group.
Sienna:
insane.
Josh:
it's under different leadership, so they probably not militarized.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
I think, I think that's more what it is.
Sienna:
still though.
Sienna:
I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing.
Josh:
yeah.
Josh:
I don't think so either.
Sienna:
yeah,
Josh:
I'll probably give it a three or four star as well, because yeah, they're pretty successful getting that many followers.
Josh:
Like it was probably around a hundred thousand at its peak.
Josh:
if not even more than that.
Josh:
So that's, uh, something to be, you know?
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
It says something about the belief and the willingness is people.
Josh:
Leave Japan society to, to join
Josh:
is there anything you want to shout out before we leave today?
Sienna:
Oh, my goodness.
Sienna:
Go
Josh:
need to, you need a podcast so that you can show it.
Josh:
Something has to go Rams.
Josh:
Yeah.
Josh:
You think the Rams are going to win.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
Oh, that's what I'm
Josh:
that's your bet.
Josh:
So this podcast will actually come out after, so
Sienna:
maybe I
Josh:
I'm saying go Bengals.
Josh:
So
Sienna:
And you all.
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
But you also said that they're going to pour white Gatorade.
Josh:
I did say that in the prop bets,
Sienna:
ridiculous.
Josh:
it's the worst flavor,
Sienna:
Yeah.
Sienna:
I guess we'll get
Josh:
so no one's gonna be drinking it.
Josh:
So it'll be on the table
Sienna:
yeah.
Josh:
tell me I'm wrong.
Sienna:
I don't know.
Josh:
yeah, so that, that is it for today.
Josh:
please let us happy.
Josh:
Valentine's
Josh:
day to those who are celebrating.
Josh:
I mean, some people might not celebrate.
Sienna:
true.
Sienna:
enough.
Josh:
and, uh, go Bengals, uh, let us know who you're cheering for for the Superbowl or who you
Josh:
cheered for,
Sienna:
I was going to say
Josh:
guess, let us know what you thought about this cult.
Josh:
Uh, if there's any information I missed, please let me know.
Josh:
if
Sienna:
tell us all the right pronunciations of it all.
Sienna:
Rip him to shreds,
Josh:
any Japanese listeners, please send me like a voice note or something.
Josh:
I think we have that on our website.
Josh:
So you can go to my website.
Josh:
Let's start a call podcast.com.
Josh:
And there's a little.
Josh:
Message button.
Josh:
You can click that and leave a voice message to let me know how I pronounced everything wrong.
Sienna:
Yeah, love that.
Josh:
I appreciate that.
Josh:
So if you enjoyed this episode, please give it a five-star review on apple podcasts.
Josh:
Good pods, pod, chaser, and Spotify.
Josh:
if you really love this episode and can't wait to hear more, you can go to patrion.com/cultivate podcast network and sign up using the link in the show notes to get a week early access.
Josh:
Usually this episode is not a weaker.
Josh:
I'm sorry.
Josh:
Um, I've been busy.
Josh:
Uh, usually it'll be a week early.
Josh:
you'll get also get a week early access to read it on Wiki.
Josh:
My other podcast, the dumbfound dead as you well know, Patrick and John who had been in the show many times and John's bonus episode Kaba, uh, bonus podcasts, I guess it is CAPA.
Josh:
he talks.
Josh:
Cryptids and met those, uh, in like 10 minute chunks on his bonus podcasts on our Patrion.
Josh:
there are higher tiers.
Josh:
So if you want more content, you can go check out the, the Patrion to figure out which tier works for you.
Josh:
so thank you, Fred for listening and thank you Sienna for coming on today.
Sienna:
You're welcome everybody.
Sienna:
Better rate this five stars cause I'm on it.
Josh:
rate it five stars just for.
Sienna:
Yes, please.
Josh:
Um, so that she'll forgive me for not doing a Valentine's day date.
Sienna:
Hey, we had a lovely Valentine's day last night.
Sienna:
Thank you very
Sienna:
much.
Josh:
All right.
Josh:
Thank you very much.